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Should Accordance provide an option to display section titles in the main Bible text?


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Poll: Section Titles in the Main Bible Text

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Should Accordance display section titles in the main Bible text with the option to turn it off?

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#1 RichardHendricks

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 10:20 PM

I think Accordance should provide this feature. Other Bible software products do.

#2 Lester P. Bagley

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 11:21 PM

The appropriate place for these is in your notes as they are simply commentary. Many times I have crossed out horribly inaccurate "titles" in my printed Bibles and written in more appropriate titles or notes.

If Accordance ever decides to add these, please make them editable text rather than pretentious permanent additions to the text!

That would be a "no" vote :D and my two cents worth.
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#3 RichardHendricks

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 11:33 PM

The appropriate place for these is in your notes as they are simply commentary. Many times I have crossed out horribly inaccurate "titles" in my printed Bibles and written in more appropriate titles or notes.

If Accordance ever decides to add these, please make them editable text rather than pretentious permanent additions to the text!

That would be a "no" vote :D and my two cents worth.

Would you be satisfied with turning them off?
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#4 R. Mansfield

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 12:43 AM

I'd like to see the section titles as an option (with the ability to turn them off). I believe the section titles serve a valuable purpose in splitting up the text into easily recognizable sections.
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#5 Jonathan C. Borland

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 02:58 AM

I said yes. They're included in the hard copies and thus should obviously be at least an option for display in the Acc modules.

#6 Ryan Gustason

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 06:39 AM

I said yes simply because if it is in the original printed version, it should be included in the main text. I do agree that sometimes these are inaccurate so I feel it should be toggle switched on or off.
I would like to say as well that this is not a complaint of mine. I think Oaktree has done an impressive job with version 10 and I'll probably review it on my blog soon.

Edited by Ryan G, 07 September 2012 - 06:40 AM.

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#7 Randy Cue

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 07:39 AM

I assume you are referring to pericope titles. I think it could be of some use, but they do differ from version to version.

Soli Deo Gloria,
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#8 Fr. Rusty Matheny

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:02 AM

I voted Yes, but ONLY if they can be turned off and I would prefer editing for the reasons listed above.
It is human nature if something is done enough, it gets considered as truth ( human traditions etc ).
As these pericope titles are subjective, not part of Holy Writ, they should not have any permanent position .

A placeholder type of approach might be appropriate, thus giving the Pericope listed by the publisher, but leave it where we can edit as with the blank space in Inductive Bibles.
This way, everyone has something useful and, it can simply be turned off in preferences.

Personally do not use these and hate they are put in Bibles at all, but as they are, we do have to deal with them.

#9 Julie Falling

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:31 AM

To a degree the Outlines perform this function and give us context help. Because that is something we all already have and can open or dismiss at will, if titles in the text were included, I'd want it to be an option that I could turn off.

Not every edition of the same version even has the same pericope headings, so how is it to be decided which is chosen? And does that involve more licensing? I'm now leaning more toward "no" . . .
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#10 Greg Terry

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:23 AM

I would be Ok with that as an option as long as they did not inhibit the searching of the texts.
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#11 Michael J. Bolesta

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:41 AM

I would be Ok with that as an option as long as they did not inhibit the searching of the texts.


That raises a concern. Another thread has shown that searches within GNT-T and NA27-T showed subtle differences. These were attributed to the fact that the Accordance search engine includes punctuation and ( as "words." Adding section headings may add more overt perturbations in searches.

If adding section headings (adding words to the module) affects searches, this would be an undesirable side effect. This would make the "cost" of adding the section headings too high for me.
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#12 JonathanHuber

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:49 AM

Not every edition of the same version even has the same pericope headings, so how is it to be decided which is chosen?


Exactly. This more than anything else illustrates that the headings are not part of the text.

I understand the desire to see the headings on occasion (I opened the NET Bible in parallel recently when reading through Song of Solomon just to have the conversation markers). But there are quite a number of problems with inserting the headings directly into the text. I disagree that the electronic editions need to display everything the same way as the print editions. The ESV also has book introductions- should they be inserted too? I'd like to see the headings in the notes files instead.
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#13 Jonathan C. Borland

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 10:20 AM

Programming should alleviate the search concerns, just as in the ESVS the superscripted letters and asterisks in the text indicating notes should be "invisible" when searching the ESVS. I should think the headings would be in the same or similar category programming-wise, since obviously, as everyone acknowledges, they are not part of Scripture.

#14 T. Conrad

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 10:23 AM

I vote 'no'. While they can be helpful. More often than not, when I am studying (which is what I use Accordance for), I find them more distracting and sometimes misleading than helpful. I wrote a sermon for Bible college one day entitled "Remove the Headings" in which I used a sharpie to tell people that I actually remove things from my Bible.. After I waited for a worried gasp, I explained that I use it to remove the extra headings that have been added by modern versions of Scripture.

I was writing on the list of beatitudes in Matthew 5.1-12. The problem I came upon was where was the application? Do we feel all warm and fuzzy inside because of all these things Jesus says to his disciples about blessings upon the persecuted, poor in spirit, etc..?

Maybe.

But finally, I realized the content that immediately followed and I came to understand that those beatitudes probably aren't well read out of context (go figure!). But Jesus says right after the list of beatitudes,

"“You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people’s feet. “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.”" (Matt 5.13-16).


Surely something must be there. Surely, Jesus didn't want his disciples to just feel comforted by these things, but to realize the light and hope they have and to let that light and hope show prominently in their lives.

What's the point of those blessings if they aren't shared?

My point is that without the headings, coming to this sort of understanding is much less hindered. Besides, any serious Bible student worth their salt will tell you that context is key. :P

My $0.02 (or a bit more, even :P)

Edited by T. Conrad, 08 September 2012 - 10:30 AM.

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#15 Michael J. Bolesta

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 10:45 AM

Programming should alleviate the search concerns, just as in the ESVS the superscripted letters and asterisks in the text indicating notes should be "invisible" when searching the ESVS. I should think the headings would be in the same or similar category programming-wise, since obviously, as everyone acknowledges, they are not part of Scripture.


They may be invisible in the search results, but would they affect word count? Look at Helen Brown's post in this thread: http://www.accordanc...ns&fromsearch=1

The programmers probably should weigh in on this discussion. If developers add extrabiblical text to a biblical module, I would strongly favor for the option to exclude the non-canonical material from searching (realizing that some might want to search for a heading). Without this, the search statistics will be skewed in an unpredictable way.

Perhaps a future refinement of the fantastic Accordance search engine would include the ability to exclude (or include) extrabiiblical material such as chapter & verse numbers, superscripts, asterisks, sigla, and the like. I would envision a preference panel that lets one select items to include or exclude. Another panel could also allow one to display or hide this material (addressing the desires of those participating in this thread).
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#16 Steve King

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 11:52 AM

I would prefer valuable programming/development time was spent on other items such as improving the note taking, user tools and highlights for example and introducing more resources across the Christian spectrum. To my mind having the headings within the text would just not add to the study of a passage. And even for 'just' reading you could have the outlines module open, or a bible dictionary open at the relevant entry, or a study bible open any of which would provide an outline better than section headings.
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#17 Michael J. Bolesta

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 12:04 PM

I would prefer valuable programming/development time was spent on other items such as improving the note taking, user tools and highlights for example and introducing more resources across the Christian spectrum. To my mind having the headings within the text would just not add to the study of a passage. And even for 'just' reading you could have the outlines module open, or a bible dictionary open at the relevant entry, or a study bible open any of which would provide an outline better than section headings.


I would agree that allocation of Oaktree Software's limited resources be prudently allocated. I voted "no" to the survey. The poll is not "scientific" and may not represent the opinion of the Accordance user base (likely that it probably does not). Not the less, the spirited activity on the thread would indicate some desire for such a feature.

I am personally happy with accessing the notes module and keeping the text module "pure." Hence the status quo if fine with me. What would make me "unhappy" would be a solution that degrades the accuracy of search statistics.
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#18 Donovan R. Palmer

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 03:38 PM

Pericopes that could be turned on and off would be nice.

Edited by Donovan R. Palmer, 08 September 2012 - 03:40 PM.


#19 Jonathan C. Borland

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 06:32 PM

Hi Michael!

They may be invisible in the search results, but would they affect word count? Look at Helen Brown's post in this thread: http://www.accordanc...ns&fromsearch=1


In that case, if commas and periods already count as words in the statistics/graphing feature, I would say the search/analysis algorithms are already due for some refinement!

Perhaps a future refinement of the fantastic Accordance search engine would include the ability to exclude (or include) extrabiiblical material such as chapter & verse numbers, superscripts, asterisks, sigla, and the like. I would envision a preference panel that lets one select items to include or exclude. Another panel could also allow one to display or hide this material (addressing the desires of those participating in this thread).


Well stated, and apparently the correct solution to all issues brought up in this thread.

Sincerely,

Jonathan C. Borland

#20 Greg Terry

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 02:00 PM

I would prefer valuable programming/development time was spent on other items such as improving the note taking, user tools and highlights for example and introducing more resources across the Christian spectrum. To my mind having the headings within the text would just not add to the study of a passage. And even for 'just' reading you could have the outlines module open, or a bible dictionary open at the relevant entry, or a study bible open any of which would provide an outline better than section headings.


Exactly! Well said.
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