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Verb without a complement. What's wrong?


David Knoll

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I am looking for all the occurrences of שמר without an object. I thought I'd search as in the screenshot attached, but the occurrences with the object are not filtered out. I must be doing something wrong. Can anyone point out to me how I should run this search?

post-31019-0-74502300-1416333049_thumb.png

Edited by David Knoll
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David,

 

Try it *without* the "Search both directions" box selected. Then it works (for comps following the verb).

 

We have found an error in Acc 11 with syntax searching; I'll report it now.

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Thank you! Do I understand correctly that if I place the complement phrase first, the problem persists?

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So, is this search logic indeed asking for all clauses involving the predicate שמר that lack a complement? Based on how NOT works elsewhere, I would most naturally read this as a search for a clause involving the predicate שמר and some other constituent that is not a complement, i.e. שמר [predicate] AND X where X IS NOT [complement].

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Actually, Mr. Shades (your pic kills me -- it's almost as bad as my horrid studio photo), the search should simply have a negative Comp Phrase. But when I do that in Acc 11, it's gives me a warning. I think it's another bug.

 

[Correction, now in 11.0.2 the warning no longer pops up, so that's fixed]

 

David -- I forgot to try it by building it the other way. I just did and sadly it doesn't work. So, the positive build works, but negating the comp phrase does not.

 

Thanks for finding this bug.

Edited by Robert Holmstedt
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Thank you prof Holmstedt. If I understand correctly the conversation between you and mr. Bekins there is another way to find what I want which still works. If that is the case, could you attach a screenshot of the construct?

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My shades pick is much cooler than your yearbook pic, Robert. So if I understand correctly, you are saying NOT applied to a clause or phrase means -, so the search logic is "predicate phrase AND predicate IS שמר AND [- complement phrase]?

 

David, my instinct is that this search should really be a search for a NULL complement, but I don't know if the NULL searching is working right yet and I do not remember how we treated the argument structure of שמר. Valency is probably something that needs to be given a second look once the initial tagging is complete.

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My shades pick is much cooler than your yearbook pic, Robert. So if I understand correctly, you are saying NOT applied to a clause or phrase means -, so the search logic is "predicate phrase AND predicate IS שמר AND [- complement phrase]?

 

David, my instinct is that this search should really be a search for a NULL complement, but I don't know if the NULL searching is working right yet and I do not remember how we treated the argument structure of שמר. Valency is probably something that needs to be given a second look once the initial tagging is complete.

I wonder if it is wise to tag null complements. If that is done, the user needs to know what valency you decided each verb lexeme to have.

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Pete,

 

Perhaps, but only slightly cooler. On valency, John Cook is working on finishing his valency lexicon and then we will indeed make another pass through the database for consistency.

 

David -- Pete's correct. I apologize that I was answering the basic issue of the search syntax and not really paying attention to the verb you were using. שׁמר is always bivalent (i.e., has a complement, even if it is null). In fact, I'm using this search to catch errors and fix them in the tagging right now.

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David,

 

There is no theoretically consistent option other than doing so -- if we admit null items (which we do and I discuss why in the background paper that is available in the Accordance resources page, somewhere), then we have to be consistent in our use of them.

 

If a verb has an overt NP comp 7 of every 10 occurrences and an implicit complement can be discerned from the discourse in the 2 more times, then it only stands to reason that the remaining 1 time includes a null comp, unless one can cogently argue that the verb in that case represents a distinct lexical entry (i.e., a monovalent entry).

 

As for providing the user with a guide, that is precisely what John Cook's valency lexicon, which will match the final syntax product, will do.

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Could you perhaps post a screenshot with the null complement construct? I think I am doing something wrong here.

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Oh boy. It's supposed to look like this, but it's definitely not working.

 

post-29948-0-35632500-1416580325_thumb.png

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