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What would you buy first, BDAG or Big Kittel?


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#21 Dan Wagner

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 11:35 AM

I read that too...and thats right where I am right now- two chapters back! Mounce also said that the noun and article paridigms were just light memoriziation- nothing too hard. If that's the case, I may be in trouble.

#22 James Tucker

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 11:36 AM

I like to learn a new language every two years (for many reasons). The couple recent languages that I've learned are computer language (which are very similar and to various degrees harder to learn). Nevertheless, I am learning C and Objective-C at the moment. The textbook from which I am studying echoed the Mounce Quote above in saying, "Learning a new language is an example of difficult learning. You know that there are millions of people who work in that language effortlessly, but it seems incredibly strange and awkward in your mouth. And when people speak it to you, you are often flummoxed. Learning to program a computer is also difficult learning. You will be baffled from time to time—especially here at the beginning. This is fine. In fact, it's kind of cool. It is a little like being six again."

:)

Edited by James Tucker, 26 July 2012 - 11:36 AM.


#23 Julie Falling

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 11:57 AM

Michael -

I agree. The fog analogy was very helpful, and not just for learning Biblical languages. And what we want is for the fog to move along as we do. What we don't want is wallowing in the Slough of Despond - right?

Julie

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#24 Michael J. Bolesta

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 12:48 PM

There is also the joy when you read something in the original (even something simple) and it makes sense. I am not a native reader of Greek, but there is nothing like reading the gospels in Greek.

Dan, I join Julie in cheering you on (Hebrews 12:ff).
Michael
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#25 DavidDoyle

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 08:23 PM

Very interesting thread. To me it's beef vs. chicken (or tofu vs hummus) - which should you have first? You are going to want both eventually. While there is some overlap, I find that I go to both often. I'm very glad to have the big Kittel in Accordance.

#26 Matthew Burgess

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 08:56 PM

I believe that Rod is referring to James Barr's The Semantics of Biblical Language (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1961). Barr discusses TWNT (the German edition of the lexicon) at length in the eighth chapter. Most of his reservations concern the relationship between theology and lexicography in the work; in his view, the former has exerted too much influence on the latter. He concludes his analysis with the statement that "when the same conceptions of language and its relation to theological statement go out from the more purely lexicographical task to the task of theological construction... the use of arbitrary and theologically-dictated pseudo-linguistic arguments becomes easier."

Also, on an ideological level, it may be noteworthy that Gerhard Kittel joined the National Socialist Party shortly after Adolf Hitler assumed the chancellorship of Germany in 1933 and was arrested and charged with war crimes in 1945 (he died before criminal proceedings could be completed). Later scholarship has been divided on the question of the relationship between Kittel's political and religious views and the structure and content of TWNT/TDNT. An excellent discussion of these issues is Wayne Meeks, "A Nazi New Testament Professor Reads His Bible: The Strange Case of Gerhard Kittel," in Hindy Najman and Judith H. Newman, The Idea of Biblical Interpretation: Essays in Honor of James L. Kugel (Supplements to the Journal for the Study of Judaism 83; Leiden: Brill, 2003), 513-544.

#27 Diane Richards

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 02:54 PM

Dan -

I want to encourage you to stick with it. We used Mounce for 1st year Greek. It's excellent. By the way, I began my Greek studies at 56. I am now 60. I think the effort it took actually helped my old brain, though my old eyes have given me some problems. I only audited Greek - $90/semester instead of about $400 to take it for credit. However, I took all the quizzes & tests, wrote all the papers (except one), and participated in class. The professors and college were so very gracious to include me.

I agree with what Dr. J said in his podcast - writing out vocab on cards helped with the learning process. It also enabled me to pull out of the pack what I had mastered (or thought I had mastered). I used colored half-index cards, and put nouns on two of the colors, verbs on two of the colors, and adjectives + what I called "annoying little words" on the last color. I also numbered each card in the corner by where they occurred in Trenchard's Complete Vocabulary Guide to the Greek NT (worth buying - got mine at Amazon). Now I know this sounds very OCD, but it really helped me. Start at the very top of the card, especially for the verbs, because you will be adding more stuff as you proceed to principle parts.

The other thing that helped me with Greek (and chemistry - my only degree is a BS in chemistry), was to use a lot of paper and write out what I was trying to learn - paradigms and vocab for Greek. I learned a long time ago that I can make up for what I lack in raw talent with work and discipline. If you have a full-time job, your time is going to be limited, but if you devote some time each day, you will make progress, and it really is worth it. What difference does it make if it takes you 2 years to cover Mounce?

I will be back on these forums asking for advice as I try to do Hebrew on my own. My professors said it could be done, and my Greek classmates voted and said I should. I've purchased Pratico & VanPelt. We'll see how it goes. The Hebrew font is even harder for me to see than the Greek, and looks to me like someone dipped a hen's feet in ink and turned her loose. I'm hoping it won't be totally bewildering when I get started!

Hang in there,

Julie


Hi, I am taking Hebrew from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. This is my first year, and I am really loving it. You have a specific online class once a week for one hour with a teacher from eTeacher. You have a book (Bibilcal Hebrew A with Units 1 -30) that you go through. They have been teaching Hebrew for 96 years or something like, and it shows. You should check them out if you want.

Diane

#28 Julie Falling

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 03:06 PM

Thanks, Diane. I'll check it out next month. We're finishing an addition to our church and have been heavily involved (tired!), and are planning a trip to visit out son in Denver. Once things calm down around here, we're going to try to take on Hebrew together.

Have you had any Greek? I've heard from several sources that Hebrew, once the alphabet is learned, is a bit easier. What do you think? I have absolutely loved Greek and use it daily.

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#29 Fr. Rich

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 03:14 PM

BDAG. Kittel is good to have but it is not a lexicon.

Rich Miller
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