Enoch Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) I was looking for house [οἰκία] of God in the LXX, so I put in this string to avoid getting results for idols θεοί. The word θεοί certainly does occur in the LXX. But It would not cooperate with men when I tried this string: οἰκία <AND> θεοῦ <NOT> θεοί also I tried: =οἰκία <AND> =θεοῦ <NOT> θεοί But it refused to search, & gave me the dreaded non-cooperate drop-down menu with a list of words, none of them being θεοί. I got the same result when I used quotes around θεοί =οἰκία <AND> =θεοῦ <NOT> "θεοί" I tried =οἰκία <AND> =θεοῦ <NOT> =θεοί which yielded a different rebuke window, telling me like expected character(s) were missing, like matching quote mark. Is this a bug? There must be some way to search & exclude θεοί. BTW, the system also refused to search for οἰκία <AND> θεοῦ BTW, I dearly wish I could stop that pop down menu from coming up. If you just hit enter, it changes your search string when it was never asked to do that. Edited October 23, 2014 by Enoch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Thigpen Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) Enoch, To exclude the terms you don't want, you have to make sure and search for an inflected form in the second half. I ran this search and the results were limited to what you're looking for. (=Οἶκος, =οἶκος) <FOLLOWED BY> <WITHIN 2 Words> "(=Θεοῦ, =θεοῦ)" Hope that helps. Mike Edited October 23, 2014 by Mike Thigpen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Jenney Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 [chuckle] "rebuke window" Enoch, I think most of us consider that window Accordance's attempt to be helpful! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Simpson Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) Mike is correct, though another way you can do it is to search for the two words οἰκία and θεοσ and make sure that θεοσ is not in the inflected form you wish to exclude. οἰκία <AND> θεοσ@-“θεοι”. As Mike points out it would be good to use the <FOLLOWED BY> <WITHIN 2 Words> restriction, or something similar. Or in syntax you could restrict it to being within the same phrase. (Of course there is no syntaxing available for the LXX - sorry) remember the = sign asks for a specific lemma, in this case θεοί, which doesn’t exist. Just try inputting θεοί into the search bar on its own, and you will see what I mean. to exclude the inflected form you enclose it in quotes. so your search =οἰκία <AND> =θεοῦ <NOT> "θεοί" is almost correct, but won’t work because of two things. First, there is no lemma θεοῦ. It’s the genitive masculine singular inflected form of θεος. Secondly, while it gives the same results this time, logically what you are looking for is a verse where οἰκία occurs (you don’t need the = sign as there is only one lemma), and there is the word θεος (again the = sign is not required) and then a third term where there is not the inflected form θεοί, which could be the same word you searched for a moment ago (θεος) or it could be a completely new word in the verse. By using Mike’s option or my option you are limiting the search to 2 words, and third word will not be found. Edited October 23, 2014 by Ken Simpson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) (=Οἰκία, =οἰκία) <FOLLOWED BY> <WITHIN 5 Words> "(=Θεοῦ, =θεοῦ)" Thanks a lot, gentlemen. The one thing I will have to do though, is to also allow for preceded by since Greek can easily put the genitive "of God" before the oikia. Is there a command that included preceded by & followed by? like just "within X words"? (=Οἰκία, =οἰκία) <WITHIN 5 Words> "(=Θεοῦ, =θεοῦ)" I intend to try that. Timothy, my beef with the rebuke window (LOL) is that it takes too much effort to get rid of, and it changes my search when I don't want it to do so. Edited October 24, 2014 by Enoch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) (=Οἰκία, =οἰκία) <WITHIN 5 Words> "(=Θεοῦ, =θεοῦ)"Ι tried that, but it gave me again the rebuke drop down. No search. Vot der dumboozle? But this argument doesn't get Accordance rebuttal; it searches: (=Οἶκος, =οἰκία) <WITHIN 5 Words> "(=Θεοῦ, =θεοῦ)" Edited October 24, 2014 by Enoch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abram K-J Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 (=Οἰκία, =οἰκία) <FOLLOWED BY> <WITHIN 5 Words> "(=Θεοῦ, =θεοῦ)" Thanks a lot, gentlemen. The one thing I will have to do though, is to also allow for preceded by since Greek can easily put the genitive "of God" before the oikia. Is there a command that included preceded by & followed by? like just "within X words"? (=Οἰκία, =οἰκία) <WITHIN 5 Words> "(=Θεοῦ, =θεοῦ)" I intend to try that. Yes. WITHIN is a bi-directional command. I, too, love "rebuke window," and will try to use it now as often as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Hey Enoch, The attempt-to-be-helpful-dialog (aka rebuke) is for =Οἰκία which is not in the LXX with an initial cap. Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) Hey Enoch, The attempt-to-be-helpful-dialog (aka rebuke) is for =Οἰκία which is not in the LXX with an initial cap. Thx D Thanks Daniel; Now why pray tell does not Accordance just run the search with a message popping up for 2 seconds saying, "The word you searched for does not occur in the text as a capitalized word" -- and go on with the wedding? As a matter of fact, I don't think that the ancient texts do have two fonts (lower & upper case) anyway. Edited October 24, 2014 by Enoch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) (=οἰκία) <WITHIN 5 Words> (=κυρίου) Now that won't work either. And I have no idea why not. My guess is that the = means it wants an exact lexeme/lemma. It worked when I used quotes instead of =. And I got: Καὶ ἀπέστειλεν ὁ βασιλεὺς καὶ ἐκάλεσεν αὐτὸν πρὸς ἑαυτὸν εἰς οἰκίαν ασελισι τὴν ἐν οἴκῳ κυρίου· Edited October 24, 2014 by Enoch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 κυρίου is not a lexical form, its an inflected one. Check out this help page for information on this type of searching in Greek : http://accordancefiles2.com/helpfiles/OSX10/Default.htm#topics/11_ggtt/entering_greek_lexical_and_inflected_forms.htm?Highlight=lexical%20form (=οἰκία) <WITHIN 5 Words> ("=κυρίου") will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Simpson Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) (=Οἰκία, =οἰκία) <WITHIN 5 Words> "(=Θεοῦ, =θεοῦ)" I intend to try that. Timothy, my beef with the rebuke window (LOL) is that it takes too much effort to get rid of, and it changes my search when I don't want it to do so. Hi Enoch, (=Οἰκία, =οἰκία) <WITHIN 5 Words> "(=Θεοῦ, =θεοῦ)” would be much more easily performed with οικια<WITHIN 5 Words> θεος@ [NOUN genitive] as there is only one lemma for οικια so it doesn’t need to be specified as a particular lemma. That would cover any accenting at all of the θεοῦ and any capitalisation. If you really wanted it to be the nom sing, then better to specify that (IMHO). so: οικια@ [NOUN nominative]<WITHIN 5 Words> θεος@ [NOUN genitive] to dismiss the beautifully named “rebuke box” just tap the ESC key and no search argument will change and the dreaded box will disappear! Edited October 24, 2014 by Ken Simpson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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