Thread on Logos Forum

[tony10000]

The title is: "Logos has overtaken Accordance for good". It offers several critical remarks about Accordance.

 

Specifically:

 

1. Lower quality of resources in Accordance. Reported resource errors not fixed.

2. Lexicons do not always find the text you are looking for.

3. Frequent crashes in Windows version.

4. Less extensive tagging in Accordance vs Logos.

5, No dynamic pricing.

 

Anyone want to comment on these criticisms? I would like to hear responses from the Accordance perspective.

Edited September 17, 2014 by tony10000

[PhilT]

I would like to know, these things

 

But also

 

Why Logos, has continuing problems with their Mac software? check the Logos forums.

[Abram K-J]

The title is: "Logos has overtaken Accordance for good". It offers several critical remarks about Accordance.

 

Specifically:

 

1. Lower quality of resources in Accordance. Reported resource errors not fixed.

2. Lexicons do not always find the text you are looking for.

3. Frequent crashes in Windows version.

4. Less extensive tagging in Accordance vs Logos.

5, No dynamic pricing.

 

Anyone want to comment on these criticisms? I would like to hear responses from the Accordance perspective.

 

Okay, I'll bite.

 

1. Surprisingly, I have found this to be at least somewhat true in recent experience. My two points of comparison have been Göttingen Septuagint books and some of the Dietrich Bonhoeffer Works. All of my corrections for one Göttingen module were incorporated nicely in an update. Some but not all of my DBW corrections in Accordance have made it in. Logos had cleaner texts in both cases in their initial releases--I was always comparing identical passages before making such an assessment.

 

As I say, this was a surprise, because my experience up till then had been the other way around. Accordance has responded to this on the forums, though, and I know they're continuing an effort at text quality control, and they will continue to update reported corrections, where they haven't already.

 

2. Not sure what this means? If you set it up right, lexicons will find what you're looking for in Accordance.

 

4. No way. Accordance has far more extensive search fields that it marks up its texts with. It has Logos beat here, for sure. Finding Greek or Hebrew or manuscript names in Accordance is easier.

 

5. This is true (other than the three month grace period policy for base packages).

[Peter Brylov Christensen]

Points 1-3: All kinds of (Bible) software constantly has issues that need to be addressed, so that goes for Logos as well. To be fair, though, I don't have Logos myself, but I know a guy that does. He is content with it, but his chief complaint with Logos is that it is exceptionally mind-numbingly slow (amongst other minor problems I can't remember at the moment).

 

Point 4: I'm not really buying that. It is one of Accordance's prime features and it beats the other programs by far, I'd say.

 

Point 5: Don't know enough to comment on that.

*Edit*

What is the link for the Logos thread in question?

Edited September 17, 2014 by Pchris

[tony10000]

This is the original thread: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/88436.aspx?PageIndex=1

[Peter Brylov Christensen]

This is the original thread: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/88436.aspx?PageIndex=1

 

Thanks!

[tony10000]

There was quite a spirited discussion, though it seems to have died down. I was a bit late to the party.

 

My comments:

 

1. I am a longtime Logos user and a new Accordance for Windows user. From what I have seen, both companies produce well-edited resources. I have only spotted and reported one error.

 

2. Not sure what the OP is talking about here. User error?

 

3. I have quite a few crashes in Windows in Accordance that are sporadic and not repeatable. Some freezing as well from time to time. However, most of the time, it seems to be quite stable. I am sure that there are more bugs to be stomped as it is a new program. However, Logos has been no picnic either, especially when Logos 4 came out. Logos 5 is more stable and is updated regularly.

 

4. I think both programs tag extensively. Could he mean cross-tagging between resources?

 

5. Quite surprised by this one. I would think that if you buy some resources from a package or set, you should be able to receive some kind of credit when you upgrade. Otherwise, you are paying 2X for the same resource.

[Brian K. Mitchell]

(1) Quality? I think this is a bit subjective or at least relative to resource. If, we are comparing Hebrew Texts like say the Qumran Sectarian database would Accordance really be perceived has having lower quality?

 

(2) If you can type in Hebrew or Greek you can quickly find anything in Lexicons in Accordance. In fact the entire word does not have to be typed before suggestions will appear. Clicking/hovering over words in tagged text will bring up lexicon and dictionary information. I guess I do not really understand what the problem is here?

 

(3) The windows version is still new so some issues are to be expected. However, I like it much more than I did the emulator version. (Also, it seems that there may be a migration away from Windows)

 

(4) Original language resources seem to be tagged very well so I guess by tagging something else is meant? Maybe, hyper-linking as suggested above. But, if hyper-linking is the issue here then the perceived problem may have more to do with each Software’s philosophy than anything else.

 

(5) I'm in agreement with Abram K-J on this one.

[davidmedina]

I would like to know, these things

 

But also

 

Why Logos, has continuing problems with their Mac software? check the Logos forums.

 

I was wondering how long would it take to make it here.

 

Phil, I am a Logos usera as well as Accordance in a MAC environment. I have NO issues or problems whatsoever with Logos on a MAC (nor with Accordance). I have been using Logos since version 4. So while I have no doubt that some may experience problems you cannot measure the whole just by posts on forums. In my experience those are always a minority and do not reflect the majority. I have experience crashes with both software and there are always bugs in any software (just check this forum). All those things are part of real computing life.

 

As of the others issues, I have been very active in the thread and while I do not agree with some of the points there are some that are valid.

 

Accordance does not offer Dynamic Pricing nor a extensive payment plan like Logos does.

 

In my experience, Logos tagging seems to be more extensive than Accordance. That is shown in the guides, for example.

 

Accordance searches are faster in general, but Accordance seems to be able to "discern" results better. I believe Accordance is working on that.

 

Yes, Logos has many mores resources, but both Accordance and Logos have all the important ones. The rest, is just extra.

 

I would love to see improvement in Accordance use of notes and user tools. On those areas Logos has the edge. But I am confident that this is one area that will be dealt with.

 

I personally have no issues with speed in Logos. Yes, the starting up of the software is slow but that is not a big deal for me. The rest work just fine considering the complexity of what it does at once. It just doesn't just search for keywords like Accordance does but it filters, discern and collate a the same time it search giving more useful results form the resources (tools). That is where the tagging comes in.

 

Rather than pit one software against the other I think is better look for the strength and weakness in each one in order to determine what work best for what one is trying to accomplish. That is why I didn't like the title of the threat because for me is not a matter of who overtake who, but rather what work best for what you want to do.

 

At the end of the day, both software offer extensive resources and tools to help those that want to study the Bible in any depth. Like I said there, if I would have to choose all over again I would choose Logos over Accordance just because it is better suited for my needs and study style and just as a matter of saving money (by not having two system. But if I would only had Accordance I would be equally happy with it. That said, I own both and I enjoy using both very much.

Edited September 17, 2014 by davidmedina

[PhilT]

Thanks David,

I had always heard the problems on the forum with Mac and asumed this was true. Thanks for your comment.

[Dr. Nathan Parker]

By the way, if we find a typo, how do we report it to Accordance?

[Abram K-J]

To add: on the same Mac, Accordance search speeds consistently outperform those of Logos.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Abram K-J

[Rick Bennett]

For what it's worth, I am not aware of any reported errors that have not been corrected. If this is the case, then it's an oversight (or currently being worked on).

 

To report a typo: Highlight the text where the error is contained, right-click, select Report a Correction, send the email it generates.

[Ken Simpson]

By the way, if we find a typo, how do we report it to Accordance?

 

A typo in any of the modules, just use the "Report a correction" item in the Help menu of accordance desktop. All the relevant locating information is automatically included.

 

If it's in iOS, you will have to copy and paste it in an email with enough info to tell us where to find it and send it to corrections@accordanceebible.com

 

Or as Rick suggests - use the contextual menu.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Ken Simpson

[tony10000]

By the way, if we find a typo, how do we report it to Accordance?

 

On the PC, I right click and it brings up a quick menu. At the bottom of the list, it has "Report a Correction". It automatically opens an e-mail.

Now that Accordance for Windows is out and Logos is working on a native Mac version, things will really get interesting.

Edited September 18, 2014 by tony10000

[tony10000]

I think that if I was starting over today, I would probably go with Accordance as my primary program. When I got into Logos almost 5 years ago, their packages were a lot better in terms of bang for the buck PLUS I could add a lot of inexpensive Libronix resources to my library. The "cost of entry" was much lower than it is now.

 

At this time, Accordance has a much lower "cost of entry". Their $49 starter package is a really good value, even though it is limited. You can still get a really good idea of what Accordance can do. For the average Christian, it may be all they need for basic Bible study and devotions. You get some texts, some dictionaries, and some other basic tools. But you get the whole engine, not a shell.

 

With Logos, you can get the "bare shell" program for free but with no Bibles or datasets. Their starter package has a lot of "stuff"--more quantity than quality.

 

The Accordance Bible Study package is an amazing value. You get a lot of quality resources like the Tyndale Bible Commentary set. For a bit more than Logos Starter, you can add the IVP Essentials Dictionary package and have a nice little library.

 

That said, I would probably also invest in Logos to some degree because: a) They have a nice Android app (though it is rumored that Accordance is working on one). It is nice to have online access to resources (it would be amazing if Accordance could do that).

 

Just my .02. YMMV.

[Gedalya]

My impression is that the modules that Accordance offers for sale and which Logos also offers for sale are more expensive on the Logos platform or am I wrong?

 

What is meant by "dynamic pricing"?

[davidmedina]

Gordon, the price differences varies based on each products. Some books will be cheaper in Accordance (Like the great price we recently got for the WBC) while on others Logos will be cheaper. But in rare occasion the difference is large.

 

But what makes Logos more accessible is the flexible payment plan.

 

Dynamic pricing means that whatever you Logos will take it into consideration whenever you upgrade. Let say you buy three volumes from the WBC and then decide 6 month later that you love the series and want to buy it. Logos will give you a discount for the books you already own. Same thing if you upgrade from Silver to Gold, whatever books you acquire that are now included in Gold (although were not part of Silver) Logos will give you a credit toward the purchase of the Gold so you do not have to pay twice for the same books.

 

They also offer community pricing by which the user community bids on the resources and when it gains enough interest it goes into production saving you money because the community set the price for it.

 

Lastly, the have a pre-puirchase program which you get discounts if you pre buy before it goes live. Of course, you do not pay for it until you get the book.

[rokas]

(3) The windows version is still new so some issues are to be expected. However, I like it much more than I did the emulator version. (Also, it seems that there may be a migration away from Windows)

 

bkMitchell, could you please clarify what you mean by "migrating away from Windows"?

[Peter Brylov Christensen]

 

A typo in any of the modules, just use the "Report a correction" item in the Help menu of accordance desktop. All the relevant locating information is automatically included.

 

If it's in iOS, you will have to copy and paste it in an email with enough info to tell us where to find it and send it to corrections@accordanceebible.com

 

Or as Rick suggests - use the contextual menu.

 

Sorry about the thread derail, but I remember reporting a handful of errors and typos in the HALOT (Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament) by Koehler-Baumgartner using the Report a Correction a week ago - but seeing that I wanted to report them all in one go, I didn't highlight the relevant sections first. Instead I wrote down the page numbers (rather than the paragraph numbers) and also quoted the mistakes manually. Does that mean I have to do it over, or did my report get through?

[Gedalya]

David,

I was referring,of course, to my own subjective impression of pricing on logos and accordance for modules that interested me.

 

Take for example, the logos price on the Anchor Yale Bible Commentary series (86 volumes) at $1969.95 vs the price on accordance which is on sale right now $999!

 

A VERY big difference!

Edited September 18, 2014 by Gordon

[Brian K. Mitchell]

 

bkMitchell, could you please clarify what you mean by "migrating away from Windows"?

 

Sure, I think a lot of people are sticking with Windows 7 rather than moving on to Windows 8 /8.1 (Just as many stuck with XP). Also, because of the recent popularity of the Ipad and Iphone many have gotten a lot more fond of Apple Products and have been leaving Windows. I believe if Windows 9 is not significantly better than 8/8.1 more people may mirgrate to Apple. Right now I think the only thing that stops more from moving to Apple products is the price tag, but if Mac Book Pro's were the same price as mid priced Windows PC/ Linux PCs I think more would make the change. If, you look at a recent Logos video on the homepage of faithlife.com Logos Blog post (for Fri, September 12, 2014) you will notice that most if not all the computers in that video are apple products. That is another sign that Apple is become more accepted, these days.

Edited September 18, 2014 by bkMitchell

[Gedalya]

 

Sure, I think a lot of people are sticking with Windows 7 rather than moving on to Windows 8 /8.1 (Just as many stuck with XP). Also, because of the recent popularity of the Ipad and Iphone many have gotten a lot more fond of Apple Products and have been leaving Windows. I believe if Windows 9 is not significantly better than 8/8.1 more people may mirgrate to Apple. Right now I think the only thing that stops more from moving to Apple products is the price tag, but if Mac Book Pro's were the same price as mid priced Windows PC/ Linux PCs I think more would make the change. If, you look at a recent Logos video on the homepage of faithlife.com you will notice that most if not all the computers in that video are apple products. That is another sign that Apple is become more accepted, these days.

I did not update to windows 8 and remain with windows 7. My computer guy warned me against windows 8.

[Alistair]

Gordon, the price differences varies based on each products. Some books will be cheaper in Accordance (Like the great price we recently got for the WBC) while on others Logos will be cheaper. But in rare occasion the difference is large.

 

But what makes Logos more accessible is the flexible payment plan.

 

Dynamic pricing means that whatever you Logos will take it into consideration whenever you upgrade. Let say you buy three volumes from the WBC and then decide 6 month later that you love the series and want to buy it. Logos will give you a discount for the books you already own. Same thing if you upgrade from Silver to Gold, whatever books you acquire that are now included in Gold (although were not part of Silver) Logos will give you a credit toward the purchase of the Gold so you do not have to pay twice for the same books.

 

They also offer community pricing by which the user community bids on the resources and when it gains enough interest it goes into production saving you money because the community set the price for it.

 

Lastly, the have a pre-puirchase program which you get discounts if you pre buy before it goes live. Of course, you do not pay for it until you get the book.

 

I like the sound of this, Accordance should offer this on all their products.

[Alistair]

They also offer community pricing by which the user community bids on the resources and when it gains enough interest it goes into production saving you money because the community set the price for it.

 

This smells like vapourware to me. But then it works for Kickstarter.