Jump to content


Photo

Quicksilver


  • Please log in to reply
55 replies to this topic

#1 danzac

danzac

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 275 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Acadia Divinity College
  • Interests:NT, historical Jesus, DSS, NT Backgrounds

Posted 20 September 2006 - 09:43 AM

Quicksilver is quickly becoming the most popular mac app out there and its praises are sung by many productivity gurus. I can attest to its usefulness, it is quicker than spotlight and quicker than using widgets in dashboard.

Has there been any thought about developing a plug-in module for Quicksilver? Basically, if it could do the same thing the Accordance widget could do, that would be great.

#2 Joe Weaks

Joe Weaks

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,086 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Odessa, TX
  • Interests:I like things that are Orange, and possibly Blue.
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 20 September 2006 - 11:56 AM

Has there been any thought about developing a plug-in module for Quicksilver? Basically, if it could do the same thing the Accordance widget could do, that would be great.


That would not be hard to create at all, danzac.
Joe Weaks
The Macintosh Biblioblog

Sometimes I'm so helpful even I can't stand it.

#3 jpkang

jpkang

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 577 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Interests:Comparative Semitics; ancient Hebrew semantics; Hebrew syntax; history and religion of ancient Israel; history of interpretation.
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 20 September 2006 - 11:59 AM

I've tried Quicksilver (it's not THAT popular!), and it gives me visual whiplash... way too much eye candy for my tastes. I'm a LaunchBar man--far less obtrusive and also very extensible.

But to your question, is it really that hard to hit F12? :)
J. P. Kang, Ph.D. (Bible)

#4 Joe Weaks

Joe Weaks

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,086 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Odessa, TX
  • Interests:I like things that are Orange, and possibly Blue.
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 20 September 2006 - 04:24 PM

(it's not THAT popular!)...But to your question, is it really that hard to hit F12? :)

Quicksilver actually is hugely popular; just have a look at the Google Fight.
And your F12 comment is something I'd expect from someone stuck in LaunchBar. ;) (Please detect the playful banter intended.)
Quicksilver allows for incredible eyecandy; have you seen the cube interface? It's stunning. However, it also has preferences to eliminate any effects, offering just the bare bones.
But the real boon of Quicksilver is how it facilitates working with pure muscle memory. A Quicksilver Accordance plug-in simply then adds Accordance into the arsenal of that muscle memory. (Nobody touch types F12 do they?)
Joe Weaks
The Macintosh Biblioblog

Sometimes I'm so helpful even I can't stand it.

#5 jpkang

jpkang

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 577 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Interests:Comparative Semitics; ancient Hebrew semantics; Hebrew syntax; history and religion of ancient Israel; history of interpretation.
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 20 September 2006 - 10:02 PM

We of all people should know that popularity doesn't automatically mean that something is better for everyone!

I've also tried Butler and didn't find it as useful for my purposes as LB, though obviously, it too has its fans. And for what it's worth, I know only three people (two of whom are due to this thread) who use QS, and I find myself (probably like you) fairly often on the bleeding edge. I guess it just hasn't made that big of a splash in my circles.

BUT, I've switched to QS for now and will give it another try. I've turned off the "superfluous visual effects" and will see if I can easily find uses for it that are difficult or impossible for LB and if I can get used to its more graphical style. Clearly there will be some retraining of muscle memory in order.

I think it's worth remembering what Dan Miller wrote in his comparison of the three at Macworld: "Just because I can’t live without it doesn’t mean you can’t."

And while I don't use widgets very often, I can and do touch type F12 (though I use F10 and F11 far more often).
J. P. Kang, Ph.D. (Bible)

#6 Dave Klein

Dave Klein

    Member

  • Active Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 22 September 2006 - 09:47 AM

I have thought about suggesting an Accordance plugin for QS many times.

I see something like this:

Command-space -- launch quicksilver
a -- brings up the accordance plugin
. -- creates a text field to type in
1 Jn 3:1-3 -- or whatever reference you want
return -- copies the reference into the clipboard

That would be faster and more useful to me than the accordance widget. I don't want to sound like a QS snob, but I hardly ever use dashboard at this point.

DJK

#7 Joel Brown

Joel Brown

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • 3,048 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, TX
  • Accordance Version:11.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows

Posted 22 September 2006 - 01:05 PM

As the seemingly appointed programmer of things not directly affecting the application, I'll look into the development of it, but I'm not sure how compatible the 2 programs will be. I can already tell you that just like the widget, Accordance would have to be open to retrieve the verse information (discussed here.) Likewise, how would you determine what translation to use? Or whether to be citation or normal formatting? What about the other host of theoretical copy/past options? Though these could all be done within the Quicksilver interface (typing "1 John 3:2-4|ESV|Citation" for instance) or some cryptic interface like that, but then I sort of wonder, is it worth it?

You mention using quicksilver instead of the dashboard, which I respect. I personally have Quicksilver and use it at least 15 times a day. I haven't gotten into the real serious meat of it, I just use it as an extremely quick and simple launcher (Command-Space - M A I to open Mail, for instance), but lets think about the steps you listed:

Command-space -- launch quicksilver
a -- brings up the accordance plugin
. -- creates a text field to type in
1 Jn 3:1-3 -- or whatever reference you want
return -- copies the reference into the clipboard

Thats 5 different keystrokes necessary just to get something to the clipboard, and thats assuming you want some arbitrary bible text and you want it in the clipboard, not to your application, which would require a 6th command.

Doing the widget is simply:
F12 (or middle click or any other very quick shortcut definable in Sys Prefs)
1 Jn 3:1-3
return, inputted into your application. You could likewise have it customized in any different way, be it formatting, text, or inserted into your document.

You say you don't use the dashboard, which means its unlikely you have any need for any other widgets there. With just 1 Accordance widget open, the dashboard won't take up any significant amount of time or CPU usage.

Apologies, as this post turned out longer than I intended. To sum it up, I'll look into the Quicksilver development, but unless I can figure out (or others inform me of) a way to give it faster or better interface than the existing widget, it simply wouldn't be worth the effort just so we can say "We have a Quicksilver Plugin!"
Joel Brown

By day: Consultant for Oaktree
By night: Freelance Trombonist and Private Instructor

#8 danzac

danzac

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 275 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Acadia Divinity College
  • Interests:NT, historical Jesus, DSS, NT Backgrounds

Posted 22 September 2006 - 02:15 PM

I'm glad this has made a bit of discussion. Joe Weaks knows alot more about programming than I do, so he may be able to troubleshoot some potential problems mentioned.

Joel, the beauty of quicksilver is never taking your hands off the keyboard. Using the widget means you need to click into the Accordance widget, no?

As to some of the potential problems, I would think you could make preferences within the QS module so that the default text choice was there. But what I think the beautiful thing could be is the ability to choose whichever text you wanted to retrieve from through QS. For instance maybe a sign like > would signal the text. So Ant. 16:92>Joseph-T would copy from that text. Retrieving that from the widget takes a whole lot longer then- you gotta call up the dashboard, go to info, choose the new text, go back, then type your reference. QS has the potential to really revolutionalize this.

Danny

#9 Joel Brown

Joel Brown

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • 3,048 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, TX
  • Accordance Version:11.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows

Posted 22 September 2006 - 03:17 PM

I too am glad for and open to this discussion. It seems that you aren't appreciating the full capabilities of the widget. Once the widget is selected in the dashboard it always will be until you select something else. That means that if all you use the dashboard for is the widget, you know it'll always be the selected widget, and right after typing whatever your dashboard key command is you can type the reference and hit enter. No mouse involvement either. Regarding the switching between texts, though the primary popup menu is on the back of the widget, you can use control-+ and control-- (control plus and control minus) to cycle through the available texts, again never leaving the mouse. Do you really want to type "Ant. 16:92>JOSEPH-H" every single time, assuming you don't accidentally mistype something and get a wrong translation or even an error?
Joel Brown

By day: Consultant for Oaktree
By night: Freelance Trombonist and Private Instructor

#10 Joe Weaks

Joe Weaks

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,086 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Odessa, TX
  • Interests:I like things that are Orange, and possibly Blue.
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 22 September 2006 - 05:54 PM

It's very true that the real boon for QS is that for some it can operate at the muscle memory level, and that's the way they work. No reason to say, "No, use the Widget instead."
What's superior about QS that it, too, can pull the reference from highlighted text (from cocoa apps), and then autopaste, but you can assign a trigger, a key combo to do all of this. You then have the elusive F-key function that some pine for still.
I'll put a QS plugin together tonight and make it available in this forum.
Joe Weaks
The Macintosh Biblioblog

Sometimes I'm so helpful even I can't stand it.

#11 Joe Weaks

Joe Weaks

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,086 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Odessa, TX
  • Interests:I like things that are Orange, and possibly Blue.
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 23 September 2006 - 06:04 AM

I've posted the Accordance Quicksilver Actions package here:
http://macbiblioblog...accordance.html
(Updated link.)

It includes a full ReadMe with instructions on how to use and customize the actions.
Here's some tidbits from the ReadMe:

Accordance Quicksilver Actions
Version 0.1
...This package contains nine Accordance Quicksilver Actions.

Accordance 1st Module = Pastes the scripture text in the frontmost app, using the first text module in Accordance module list
Accordance 2nd Module = Pastes from the second module
Accordance 3rd Module = Pastes from the third module
Accordance Display = Looks up the text in the first module, and then displays the text in Quicksilver's pretty, bezeled display screen
Accordance Return = Looks up the text in the first module, and then allows you to do another QS action on the result
GNT-T = Pastes the scripture text in the frontmost app, using the "GNT-T" module
HMT-T = Guess what this one does
NIV = Guess again
NRSV = Keep guessing


To use these actions, follow these three steps:
1. Install the actions
2. Prepare Quicksilver's preferences/options
3. Use the actions
4. (And electively, modify the actions to suit your needs)

...

To use the Accordance QS Actions

Full steps are:
1. Command+space (or whatever is your default trigger)
2. .
3. John 11:35
4. [tab]
5. acc (or 1 or nrsv whatever shorthand you develop for an action)
6. [return]

Now, if you use the trigger that initiates QS in "text mode", then you skip step 2.
If you use the trigger that initiates QS having grabbed the current text selection, then you skip all the way to step 5...

See the ReadMe for full info.

Edited by Joe Weaks, 02 March 2007 - 04:04 PM.

Joe Weaks
The Macintosh Biblioblog

Sometimes I'm so helpful even I can't stand it.

#12 jpkang

jpkang

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 577 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Interests:Comparative Semitics; ancient Hebrew semantics; Hebrew syntax; history and religion of ancient Israel; history of interpretation.
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 23 September 2006 - 09:14 AM

My hat's off to you! I edited the HMT-T to reference BHS-W4, but otherwise, it runs fine. I did have an initial QS crash when I was trying to enable the other triggers (open in text mode and selection), but it only happened once.
J. P. Kang, Ph.D. (Bible)

#13 jwritebol

jwritebol

    Bronze

  • Active Members
  • PipPip
  • 94 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California
  • Accordance Version:8.x

Posted 23 September 2006 - 09:32 AM

Joe,

This is awesome! Thanks. Makes Accordance even more useful! You're a good man.
Jeremy Writebol
jwritebol.net

#14 Dave Klein

Dave Klein

    Member

  • Active Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 23 September 2006 - 06:31 PM

Joe,

This is fantastic! Thanks for the plugin, and the step by step readme.

Blessings,
Dave

#15 Ed Cross

Ed Cross

    Bronze

  • Active Members
  • PipPip
  • 90 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Attleboro, MA
  • Interests:King James Bible

Posted 24 September 2006 - 06:45 AM

Excellent! Thanks Joe.

Is it possible to have an apple script that would parse the results to go from:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

to:
John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

as part of one of the actions? If this could be done it would be a great workaround until Accordance has more formatting features built in.

Ed Cross

#16 Joe Weaks

Joe Weaks

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,086 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Odessa, TX
  • Interests:I like things that are Orange, and possibly Blue.
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 24 September 2006 - 01:18 PM

Excellent! Thanks Joe.

Is it possible to have an apple script that would parse the results to go from:

John 3:16 For God so loved the...

to:
John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world,

as part of one of the actions? If this could be done it would be a great workaround until Accordance has more formatting features built in.


Ed,
Yes. A piece of cake, actually. I'll later send you a version for you, and can add it as an option in the next version.
Joe
Joe Weaks
The Macintosh Biblioblog

Sometimes I'm so helpful even I can't stand it.

#17 Joe Weaks

Joe Weaks

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,086 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Odessa, TX
  • Interests:I like things that are Orange, and possibly Blue.
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 25 September 2006 - 02:41 AM

OK, I'm finishing a new draft. It has the option of keeping the "one verse per line" format, but also has the option of a paragraph format that looks like this:

Mat 11:29-12:2
11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” 12:1 ¶ At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the sabbath; his disciples were hungry, and they began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. 2 When the Pharisees saw it, they said to him, “Look, your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the sabbath.”

Should this be the default format?
Also, any other requests or suggestions before I post this next version and make it more available?

BTW, this QS action is blitzingly fast compared to using a Dashboard Widget.

In the next release, I'll add to the ReadMe the instructions for making the lookup a single key combo trigger, where you simply highlight a text reference, hit your global key combo such as Control+s, and it pastes the text right in instantly.
Joe Weaks
The Macintosh Biblioblog

Sometimes I'm so helpful even I can't stand it.

#18 Ed Cross

Ed Cross

    Bronze

  • Active Members
  • PipPip
  • 90 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Attleboro, MA
  • Interests:King James Bible

Posted 25 September 2006 - 06:16 AM

That works fine for me as a default.

I was unfamiliar with Quicksilver prior to this posting, but can honestly say that I have found it very useful as well as intuitive and I am sure I am missing alot of what it can do.

#19 danzac

danzac

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 275 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Acadia Divinity College
  • Interests:NT, historical Jesus, DSS, NT Backgrounds

Posted 25 September 2006 - 12:44 PM

Weaks, you are the man!! Man- I am glad I asked this question! With your creative mind, I am sure this is only going to get better.

p.s. Ed Cross, keep poking around and read up on Quicksilver- it will continue to revolutionize your Mac experience.

#20 danzac

danzac

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 275 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Acadia Divinity College
  • Interests:NT, historical Jesus, DSS, NT Backgrounds

Posted 25 September 2006 - 01:26 PM

Should this be the default format?
Also, any other requests or suggestions before I post this next version and make it more available?


I think this should be the default format.

Suggestion: Is it possible to highlight a portion of text and using QS, bring that up to the front in Accordance?

Question: Is it posting text in unicode? (or the choice the user makes in the Accordance prefs?)

Edited by danzac, 25 September 2006 - 01:30 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users