Logos 4 Launched

[Robb B]

Ryan, you could try to sell it on eBay. You might not get all $700 back, but probably a fair portion of it. And good question, I've been wondering that myself.

[R. Mansfield]

I have a question - not meant to be snarky but a real question... why are these dedicated Logos users lurking on this board? If you've already made your decision, what are you trying to accomplish?

 

I wondered the same thing. It seems in bad taste.

 

I've commented in the last few days on the Logos forums, but I don' t go there and promote Accordance. I have both programs and anyone who knows me or visits my website knows that I use Accordance for the bulk of my work, and I use Logos primarily as an e-reader for other texts. There are ads for Accordance on my website, but not Logos, and there are numerous reasons for that. But again, I don't go talk about this on the Logos forums. I feel that would be outside the bounds of propriety.

 

Plus, from what I've observed, some Logos users get rabid fairly quickly when Accordance is triumphed on their forums. At least here, there's a certain level of toleration and politeness.

[DanG]

I think the Logos app for the iPhone require you to be online to access the resources? (This was indicated in some blog I read, TUAW or something.)

The best I have found for iPhone so far, is Mantis Bible Study. It would be great if I could access my Accordance resources on my iPhone!

 

You do not have to be "online" for the Logos app to work. But you do have to have a phone connection. So, if you're in a place where your phone works, then your Logos app will work too. I use mine every day.

[DanG]

I wondered the same thing. It seems in bad taste.

 

I've commented in the last few days on the Logos forums, but I don' t go there and promote Accordance. I have both programs and anyone who knows me or visits my website knows that I use Accordance for the bulk of my work, and I use Logos primarily as an e-reader for other texts. There are ads for Accordance on my website, but not Logos, and there are numerous reasons for that. But again, I don't go talk about this on the Logos forums. I feel that would be outside the bounds of propriety.

 

Plus, from what I've observed, some Logos users get rabid fairly quickly when Accordance is triumphed on their forums. At least here, there's a certain level of toleration and politeness.

 

I think the discussion of the differences is helpful and not in bad taste as long as one side doesn't accuse the other side of something (like getting rabid).

 

What is helpful to me is discussing how to best study the Bible. A discussion about the pluses and minuses of certain software to help me in studying is something I think all of us would promote. I use Accordance and Logos and like them both for different reasons. I use Accordance much more, but I would not say it is perfect. There is always room for improvement.

 

I have only been on the Logos forums once. I am on the Accordance forums almost every day because it is my software of choice. But I am not anti-Logos. I use it, and I like it. Neither am I pro Logos, but I do sometimes think it is helpful to correct misconceptions about Logos, i.e. the Logos iPhone app has to be used "online" (which may or may not be true, depending on how you understand "online").

 

I expect people to be enthusiastic about Accordance on this forum! I am too. But I don't think it's helpful to having a rational discussion by bashing Logos or the people who use Logos or by being defensive.

[Rick Bennett]

 

[DanG]

Dan,

 

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, so to speak, but you're terminology is faulty here. For the sake of all interested, please be more clear. This app does indeed require you to be "online" - it is a web-based application and requires an active internet connection to function properly. If you are on an iPhone that means the wireless data connection provided through AT&T (3G, EDGE, or GPRS), or WiFi. If you are on an iPod Touch, it requires WiFi.

 

Sorry to be particular, but this is a major distinction between this app and one like Olive Tree's BibleReader. The former is totally dependent on network reliability (either through AT&T or WiFi), while the latter stores all the texts and data locally and can be accessed anywhere, very quickly.

 

You are 100% correct in your description. However, some people interpret "online" to mean it requires a WiFi connection, which is certainly not the case. If you have an iPhone, then you are always potentially "online." For clarity's sake, I posted this earlier today:

 

You do not have to be "online" for the Logos app to work. But you do have to have a phone connection. So, if you're in a place where your phone works, then your Logos app will work too.

 

The terminology "online" is what I was attempting to clarify. It doesn't mean you need WiFi and can only use it at home, or Starbucks or at some WiFi hotspot. If you have phone service, then the Logos app will work. Obviously, this means that you can't use it in Airplane mode, etc. Granted, this is an issue for some, but not nearly as great an issue as only being able to use it over WiFi.

 

The advantage to this approach is that (1) it has a smaller footprint on your iPhone and (2) you have access to LOTS of modules and (3) you can sync information with your desktop copy. The disadvantage is, as you already mentioned, that it (1) won't work everywhere and (2) may be sometimes be slower.

 

One more reason to have both—especially if it's free!

[jackcav]

Concerning Logos 4, the entire opening interface seemed to simply be a gimic to get their customers to buy more stuff.

 

You are mistaken. The resources from which excerpts appear on the Home Page are from the users own library. It merely a random sampling of what you already own. Your post is really quite uninformed. I use both Accordance and Logos and I find that each has it own strengths. This forum can be used for many things that are more valuable than trashing another brand of Bible software.

[jackcav]

The other thing to add is that Accordance is very, very stable. I haven't managed to crash it yet! Welcome! We hope to be seeing more of you on the forums!

 

Now, that is stable! Sorry, Donovan. I just could not resist.

[Lorinda H. M. Hoover]

You are 100% correct in your description. However, some people interpret "online" to mean it requires a WiFi connection, which is certainly not the case. If you have an iPhone, then you are always potentially "online."

 

Unless, of course, you are in an area where AT&T has no coverage, or no data coverage. Which is the case where I live. Furthermore, it limits Touch users to those locations where they have wifi access.

 

Lorinda

[macmike]

I wondered the same thing. It seems in bad taste.

 

I've commented in the last few days on the Logos forums, but I don' t go there and promote Accordance. I have both programs and anyone who knows me or visits my website knows that I use Accordance for the bulk of my work, and I use Logos primarily as an e-reader for other texts. There are ads for Accordance on my website, but not Logos, and there are numerous reasons for that. But again, I don't go talk about this on the Logos forums. I feel that would be outside the bounds of propriety.

 

Plus, from what I've observed, some Logos users get rabid fairly quickly when Accordance is triumphed on their forums. At least here, there's a certain level of toleration and politeness.

 

Accordance users don't do that when Logos is "triumphed" here??? I bought Logos to get the books that it seemed was going to cost me a mortage payment to get on Accordance and the fact that I can pay for my Logos package on a monthly basis over 12 months and not just 3 payments. If you look me up you will see the books I needed and for the most part was able to get on Logos and not on Accordance. Plus, realizing it is not all done on Logos yet, I need to run on both platforms.

 

I have Accordance 7 something Introduction. I couldn't afford to go any higher because Accordance doesn't have a low enough a month pricing plan for me to afford it, Logos did so I bought their Silver package. My budget would have allowed me $50 a month at the most.

 

Mike Hughes

[DanG]

Unless, of course, you are in an area where AT&T has no coverage, or no data coverage. Which is the case where I live. Furthermore, it limits Touch users to those locations where they have wifi access.

 

Lorinda

 

I'm not sure I totally follow you... First, you can't get an iPhone without data coverage. Second, you wouldn't want an iPhone if you don't have AT&T coverage anyway. So your only option to run the Logos app would be a iPod Touch. This would also be true for an Accordance app since you wouldn't buy an iPhone. And if you can only use your Logos app on an iPod Touch where you have WiFi, you might as well just use your laptop and the full program. In this particular case, it seems to me that you would rarely use any Bible app on your iPod Touch, unless you only had a desktop Mac. But you still might load Logos app onto your iPod Touch if it was free, which it is!

 

In any case, you would want to load a Bible app which didn't need to be connected over WiFi. And it would still make sense to load the FREE Logos app on your iPod Touch for the times you are connected to WiFi

 

So I would still use both.

[Lorinda H. M. Hoover]

I'm not sure I totally follow you... First, you can't get an iPhone without data coverage. Second, you wouldn't want an iPhone if you don't have AT&T coverage anyway. So your only option to run the Logos app would be a iPod Touch. This would also be true for an Accordance app since you wouldn't buy an iPhone. And if you can only use your Logos app on an iPod Touch where you have WiFi, you might as well just use your laptop and the full program. In this particular case, it seems to me that you would rarely use any Bible app on your iPod Touch, unless you only had a desktop Mac. But you still might load Logos app onto your iPod Touch if it was free, which it is!

 

In any case, you would want to load a Bible app which didn't need to be connected over WiFi. And it would still make sense to load the FREE Logos app on your iPod Touch for the times you are connected to WiFi

 

So I would still use both.

 

I don't have or want an iPhone, for the reasons you specify. But I have friends in this state who do have them. If they travel outside of the data coverage areas, they lose the ability to use any iPhone app that depends on a connection to the internet. They may still be able to make calls (voice coverage is more extensive than data coverage), but they don't have data access. Anyone who travels with their iPhone to the the Midwest, West, or New England runs the risk of this problem.

 

I do, however, want a Touch, and I don't want to be limited to a wifi network for Bible software on a Touch. I live in an area where wifi coverage is sparse, and I would want access to Bible software--and potentially to other related resources--while I'm out and about: during a visit with a parishioner, while I'm waiting at the doctor's office, while riding in a car to a meeting, etc. None of those are likely to have wifi, nor would I want to be lugging my laptop along at those times. So a Bible app that requires internet access is useless to me and people like me.

 

If/when I had a Touch, and Accordance were to create such an app I might think about getting it, but I would also have to have another non-internet dependent app as well, probably Olive Tree's Bible Reader or Mantis, although I've also considered BibleXpress.

 

Lorinda

[DanG]

I don't have or want an iPhone, for the reasons you specify. But I have friends in this state who do have them. If they travel outside of the data coverage areas, they lose the ability to use any iPhone app that depends on a connection to the internet. They may still be able to make calls (voice coverage is more extensive than data coverage), but they don't have data access. Anyone who travels with their iPhone to the the Midwest, West, or New England runs the risk of this problem.

 

I do, however, want a Touch, and I don't want to be limited to a wifi network for Bible software on a Touch. I live in an area where wifi coverage is sparse, and I would want access to Bible software--and potentially to other related resources--while I'm out and about: during a visit with a parishioner, while I'm waiting at the doctor's office, while riding in a car to a meeting, etc. None of those are likely to have wifi, nor would I want to be lugging my laptop along at those times. So a Bible app that requires internet access is useless to me and people like me.

 

If/when I had a Touch, and Accordance were to create such an app I might think about getting it, but I would also have to have another non-internet dependent app as well, probably Olive Tree's Bible Reader or Mantis, although I've also considered BibleXpress.

 

Lorinda

 

I live in the rural Midwest so I understand coverage problems. Nonetheless, I have an iPhone and it works well in most towns, but not so good between many of them.

 

In your situation I can understand why you would not want to make Logos your PRIMARY app on an iPod Touch. But I still have two thoughts...

 

First, chances are that an Accordance app that allowed access to all your modules would most likely follow a similar model. For example, it would take LOTS of space to download all the modules I own for Accordance. So I'm not sure you'd be any better off with an Accordance app.

 

Second, I can't for the life of me understand the resistance in this forum to a FREE Bible app for the iPhone, regardless of who makes it. From the Logos website, here's what you get for free:

 

If you are not a Logos 4 user, but log in to the app using a logos.com account (you can register for free if you don't have one) then, in addition to the 31 Bibles Logos offers, you will have access to the following 31 books as well:

Morning and Evening

Necessity of Prayer

Pilgrim's Progress

Power Through Prayer

Selected Sermons of George Whitefield

Sermons on Several Occassions

St. Paul the Traveller and Roman Citizen

Treasury of Scripture Knowledge

Commentary Critical & Explanatory on Whole Bible (JFB)

Diving For Pearls in God's Treasure Chest

Easton's Bible Dictionary

Imitation of Christ

In His Steps

Training of the Twelve

Why Four Gospels?

Systematic Theology (Strong)

New Nave's Topical Bible

Strong’s Concise Dictionary of the Words of the Hebrew Bible and the Greek Testament

An Introduction to Ecclesiastical Latin

Dictionary of the Vulgate New Testament

Holbein’s Bible Woodcuts

The Summarized Bible: Complete Summary of the Old Testament

The Summarized Bible: Complete Summary of the New Testament

Traveling in the Holy Land through the Stereoscope

The New Testament in Greek (Westcott and Hort)

KJV Cambridge Paragraph English-Greek Reverse Interlinear

KJV Cambridge Paragraph English-Hebrew Reverse Interlinear

Glossary of Morpho-Syntactic Database Terminology

Lexham English Bible / New Testament

LEB English-Greek Reverse Interlinear

LEB English-Hebrew Reverse Interlinear

 

That's 62 books for free. I don't believe there's any other Bible app that makes so much available for FREE! You can't even get the Treasury of Scripture Knowledge for Accordance. Why in the world would anyone NOT take advantage of this FREE offer? It doesn't take up much space on your iPhone or iPod Touch. And even if you rarely use it, it seems like it might come in handy once in a while. And did I mention it doesn't cost you anything? Somebody help me understand this.

[Robb B]

First, I'm not sure what is involved in signing up for a free Logos account, but I'm not sure I want them having much of my personal information. I am very selective about who gets that online.

 

Second, I doubt you'd find much resistance here to the free aspect of the app (aside from needing a logos account as mentioned above). I think what people are saying is that the iPhone app is not in and of itself a good reason to choose Logos over Accordance. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my take on it.

[ryangeer]

Mike Hughes, et al... At this point my question is based on a desire for information - why exactly are you posting on here? You've already made your choice, right? And you seem pretty much opposed to switching to the pricey app that is Accordance... I'm sincerely not trying to be rude - it really is a matter of curiosity to me why you would continue posting on here...

 

Thanks in advance for your reply.

[mikes]

Mike Hughes, et al... At this point my question is based on a desire for information - why exactly are you posting on here? You've already made your choice, right? And you seem pretty much opposed to switching to the pricey app that is Accordance... why you would continue posting on here...

I have the same question, I've almost started ignoring this thread a couple times, but if someone has an actual question or need they'd like community input on, I'm up for pitching in... still waiting...

[Rick Bennett]

Second, I can't for the life of me understand the resistance in this forum to a FREE Bible app for the iPhone, regardless of who makes it. From the Logos website, here's what you get for free:

 

For my part in this discussion, my comments should not be read as "resistance." Your terminology about being "online" and "phone service" was ambiguous, and I merely wanted to point that out so that users would not get the wrong idea about that app. For what it's worth, I have commented elsewhere that for a web-based free app, it isn't bad at all.

[macmike]

Mike Hughes, et al... At this point my question is based on a desire for information - why exactly are you posting on here? You've already made your choice, right? And you seem pretty much opposed to switching to the pricey app that is Accordance... I'm sincerely not trying to be rude - it really is a matter of curiosity to me why you would continue posting on here...

 

Thanks in advance for your reply.

 

I can't understand why people are so opposed to Logos when it has a legitimate use as does Accordance. I think Accordance would have more users if the payment plan was better. I may buy some more Accordance, if I can ever figure out what I need to get to have the books I want, later. You know they need a list to compare all packages so you can go look up books and see which package has the majority of the books you need. That is all I was trying to say. Here you have people that have a loathing for Logos there you see people with a Loathing for Accordance. I believe though that Logos has more users and when everything gets done on the Mac platform, they are only on Alpha 3 right now you will see more. Especially since both platforms will be covered without having to run parallels, fushion, and etc.

 

Nough said,

 

Mike Hughes

[ryangeer]

I can't understand why people are so opposed to Logos when it has a legitimate use as does Accordance. I think Accordance would have more users if the payment plan was better. I may buy some more Accordance, if I can ever figure out what I need to get to have the books I want, later. You know they need a list to compare all packages so you can go look up books and see which package has the majority of the books you need. That is all I was trying to say. Here you have people that have a loathing for Logos there you see people with a Loathing for Accordance. I believe though that Logos has more users and when everything gets done on the Mac platform, they are only on Alpha 3 right now you will see more. Especially since both platforms will be covered without having to run parallels, fushion, and etc.

 

Nough said,

 

Mike Hughes

 

Respectfully, Mike - you quoted my question but still haven't answered it. If you are serious about buying/investigating Acc. - "figure out what I need to get to have the books I want, later", many users have told you how to go about getting the answers you seek... if not, the question remains - to what end are you continuing to post here? I'm honestly just curious.

[Robb B]

Mike,

 

Here is that list you were looking for: http://www.accordancebible.com/products/packages/library.php. There's also this one for original language packages: http://www.accordancebible.com/products/packages/scholars_collection.php.

 

I can't understand what is so hard about reading these lists and figuring out what comes with which package. They really couldn't have made it any easier to understand.

 

EDIT: The comparison charts were mainly what I was referencing on these pages. Thanks Rick!

[Rick Bennett]

Mike,

 

Here is that list you were looking for: http://www.accordancebible.com/products/packages/library.php. There's also this one for original language packages: http://www.accordancebible.com/products/packages/scholars_collection.php.

 

I can't understand what is so hard about reading these lists and figuring out what comes with which package. They really couldn't have made it any easier to understand.

 

Robb,

 

You need to remove the period from the end of your link (after php). Note also the comparison charts on those pages.

[DanG]

First, I'm not sure what is involved in signing up for a free Logos account, but I'm not sure I want them having much of my personal information. I am very selective about who gets that online.

 

Second, I doubt you'd find much resistance here to the free aspect of the app (aside from needing a logos account as mentioned above). I think what people are saying is that the iPhone app is not in and of itself a good reason to choose Logos over Accordance. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my take on it.

 

This is a little frustrating.

 

You don't NEED to register in order to use the Logos app--that's only if you want to use the additional 31 free books.

 

Second, you don't NEED to own, buy or even look at Logos in order to use their app. You don't need to switch or choose something over something else. It's just free.

[basurf]

Just because you (we) love Accordance does not mean we have to avoid the fact that it is difficult to figure out all the options/packages (and pricing).

 

Many people will say, just call sales, etc etc... However, that doesn't address the point...it is difficult (confusing) enough to the potential buyer that they make the comment in the first place. There's no reason to sugar coat that flaw.

 

That being said, I think Accordance is hands down the best Bible software for the Mac. It is worth investing the time and effort figuring out what to purchase (and the price) because you are getting the best product available (if you are a mac user).

 

However, Logos shifting towards unity among the platforms is nice. I really like the fact that my iphone basically has access to what I've purchased through logos on my windows platform. It is definitely still in beta though...actually I think 4.0 and the iphone app are still in alpha. I personally wouldn't abandon Accordance just because of that...it will remain my goto Bible app on my Mac (which is my primary platform). I find the Logos mac version lacking in elegance, function, power, and performance compared to accordance. In addition, they got a huge demerit for charging for the mac engine while giving the pc engine away for free (that has finally changed as of 4.0).

 

So in summary, my personal opinion is...

Accordance is the top dog on a mac platform

Accordance needs an iphone app badly

Logos has a new direction with 4.0 that looks good

Logos 4.0 still needs quite a bit of work

...I will not stoop to becoming a "fan boy" on any product, including Accordance, therefore I have no problems talking about things that need improving, even if other "fans" defend or overlook them

[jackcav]

I personally welcome these debates, enjoy product comparisons like the ones that Rick Mansfield puts out and think the shootouts like the one at SBL are great. The reason for this is that I think it inspires the makers of great products to be even better. I was greatly pleased that Accordance fared so well at the shootout and I can imagine the team came away with ideas to improve things even more. The other product developers will no doubt will do the same. The end result is that we have better and better tools for Bible study.

 

What I don't think is helpful is if we start to treat our tools like a "girl friend"... if I start to look at another product I am made to feel like I am cheating somehow. It's just a tool to me. Maybe we all might be using exactly the same tools 25 years from now, maybe we won't. I don't think to be a fan of something you have to make a life commitment. ;-)

 

Anyhow, again congrats on the Accordance team on making a great showing at SBL. I have read good things in tweets and blogs about it. If there is another shootout next year, maybe it will be with Accordance 9? Come on accordanceguy, give us a hint. B)

 

Superb post, Donovan. I use both Accordance and Logos and attempt to remain active in both forums. There is far too much either/or on both sides of this fence. Why should there be a fence at all? If you cannot afford both, then pick your favorite and allow others the same opportunity without defaming their intelligence, spirituality, or parentage. I find a lot of these discussions on both forums to be a pooling of ignorance with almost every poster blasting the other software usually with very little accuracy.

 

It's a tool! It's a thing! You may prefer one thing or another, but when you love things

[A. Smith]

Perhaps this belongs on the 'complete the switch' post, but here I am. Move it if you want.

 

I spent some time with Logos 4 at ETS last week, and I must say, I was unimpressed. It was like playing with vista after experiencing os 10.6. It looked better than previous versions, but seemed to be a weak imitation of mac/accordance. It is difficult to compare usability because because I have some fluency in Accordance but not at all in Logos. I will tell you though, even with a logos designer there with me, i was still not able to search and read the text as easily as I am in Accordance. I concur with what others have said here in several regards. I like accordance because the program is simple and streamlined. It lets me work on the text without having to wade through a lot of books I'll never use. I understand how some like a library on the computer and it would be nice if Accordance offered a greater diversity of titles (I'm thinking academic monographs here), but my purpose in buying bible software is to study the text. Accordance does this better than anyone. I also agree, regrettably, that the purchase process is confusing. When I made my first purchase, I was frustrated that my purchase had to be reviewed by someone at accordance before it was processed. However, after buying several additional modules, I understand that Accordance is determined to make sure its customers get precisely what they need without paying for stuff they don't. I appreciate the process, even if it is a bit frustrating. Nonetheless, it is intimidating for those who haven't yet purchased. I can compare Accordance to some churches I've been to: great stuff once you get inside, but there are a lot of hoops to go through first and many get frustrated by the process. I have thought about this and I would like to offer helpful advice for improving the process, but I don't know. The problem is almost intangible to me. Oh well, hopefully someone knows what I'm talking about.

 

At the end of the day, though, I will say this (put this in the 'complete the switch category'): I use accordance because it gets out of the way and lets me study the bible; not merely study books about the bible, but the bible itself. It's the same thing I tell PC users. I use a mac because it gets out of the way and lets me do what I want and need to do. Accordance does the same thing. It just works.