Matt Fredenburg Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Hi, in the following screenshot, I have four texts open. On three of them, 'over' is highlighted, but in one, 'authority' is. How would I come to understand why it is this way (as opposed to all of them having 'over' highlighted)? Thanks, Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Hi Matt, Pretty sure this will be a tagging issue, that is which word was tagged with G0831. I had a 4 way parallel with NAS95S as well as KJVS and ESVS. ESVS and KJVS tag over. NAS95S tags both authority and over as G0831. NET doesn't tag and so there is no highlighting. By rolling over the word in each text you'll see the tagging in ID. Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Fredenburg Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 Hi Matt, Pretty sure this will be a tagging issue, that is which word was tagged with G0831. I had a 4 way parallel with NAS95S as well as KJVS and ESVS. ESVS and KJVS tag over. NAS95S tags both authority and over as G0831. NET doesn't tag and so there is no highlighting. By rolling over the word in each text you'll see the tagging in ID. Thx D Hi Daniel. When you say 'tagging issue' are you stating that it's a problem? Or are you saying that in the screenshot I supplied that somebody (Accordance staff, the publishers?) decided to tag 'authority' instead of 'over' and that it really doesn't matter, or is it something else? Thanks! Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Sorry for being obtuse. Its not really a problem as much as something to be aware of. When translating from Greek (quite frankly it could be demonstrated between any pair of languages I suspect - even C and Java) a single Greek word is often rendered using multiple English words. When someone (a tagger ) then goes through and tags the text they will make a decision concerning how the tagging should be applied to the text. Some words will be tagged very simply because there is a one English word for one Greek word correspondence. Other times where will be words that had to be added but really aren't present as a distinct word in the Greek. They may be left untagged or they may be tagged with the same tag again as the NAS95S does. Why an individual (or committee of) tagger(s) decides to do one or the other I don't really know. There is in fact another alternative: you can tag the English phrase as representing the Greek word. This is apparently what is done in the Mounce NT. I don't have it so I cannot comment on it but it seems to have some benefits - there is a podcast on this - look for Enhanced Tagging or something similar in the podcasts - I posted a link the other day on another thread but its easy to find. There is one final case it seems to me that a single English word can cover the meaning of more than one Greek word. I don't know if such cases in practice exist and if they do how they are handled. Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Fredenburg Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 Sorry for being obtuse. Its not really a problem as much as something to be aware of. When translating from Greek (quite frankly it could be demonstrated between any pair of languages I suspect - even C and Java) a single Greek word is often rendered using multiple English words. When someone (a tagger ) then goes through and tags the text they will make a decision concerning how the tagging should be applied to the text. Some words will be tagged very simply because there is a one English word for one Greek word correspondence. Other times where will be words that had to be added but really aren't present as a distinct word in the Greek. They may be left untagged or they may be tagged with the same tag again as the NAS95S does. Why an individual (or committee of) tagger(s) decides to do one or the other I don't really know. There is in fact another alternative: you can tag the English phrase as representing the Greek word. This is apparently what is done in the Mounce NT. I don't have it so I cannot comment on it but it seems to have some benefits - there is a podcast on this - look for Enhanced Tagging or something similar in the podcasts - I posted a link the other day on another thread but its easy to find. There is one final case it seems to me that a single English word can cover the meaning of more than one Greek word. I don't know if such cases in practice exist and if they do how they are handled. Thx D Thanks Daniel for your time and effort! Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Fyfe Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 just out of interest I looked up ου μη and at least with NA28-T and ESVS in parallel, they don't highlight one another. Even though 'never/not' is tagged as G3364 ου μη! Anyway - tagging must be a thankless task - and it works pretty well in 99.9% of cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Nice Douglas. I should have guessed this example. I wonder if/how the Mounce NT handles this case. Anyone know ? Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve King Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I haven't been through every instance but generally it seems that Mounce tags not/never with two key numbers, one for each word (G4024 and G3590). Matt 5:18 seems only to have one tag whereas NA27-T has both Greek words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Thanx Steve - its using GK numbers not Strong's I'm guessing. Is that so ? thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Bennett Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) just out of interest I looked up ου μη and at least with NA28-T and ESVS in parallel, they don't highlight one another. Even though 'never/not' is tagged as G3364 ου μη! Anyway - tagging must be a thankless task - and it works pretty well in 99.9% of cases. This inconsistency is due to inheriting the Strong's system, which in many cases created distinct entries for common phrases. Accordance is trying to map that Strong's number to a specific lexical form in the GNT, and doesn't find it. So, we've got two options: program Accordance to lookup one or both of the words (likely just the first), or re-tag this as two Strong's numbers for each word. The latter is the method that I would lean towards since it does not require additional programming support and is actually more accurate in terms of producing search results, etc. I'll make a note for this to be edited. Thanks for the feedback. Edited November 12, 2013 by Rick Bennett 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Thanx for the explanation Rick. I'd more or less come to the conclusion that Strong's must be doing that in some cases but had not yet checked it out. That makes this a (slightly) distinct case from the N Greek words translated into one English one as Strong has essentially treated these common expressions as just one word. Out of curiosity - does GK adhere strictly to one distinct word (ie. morphological variants due to case, number, mood etc all use the same number) one key number ? Thx D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Bennett Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Thanx for the explanation Rick. I'd more or less come to the conclusion that Strong's must be doing that in some cases but had not yet checked it out. That makes this a (slightly) distinct case from the N Greek words translated into one English one as Strong has essentially treated these common expressions as just one word. Out of curiosity - does GK adhere strictly to one distinct word (ie. morphological variants due to case, number, mood etc all use the same number) one key number ? Thx D I'm pretty sure, but I'd have to look into it more to say conclusively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Λύχνις Δαν Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Thanx, no need to chase it. I can look it up if I need it. Thx Rick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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