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The Bible Version I use. Feeling lost about the OT.


Unix

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I've basically changed my Bible version preferences completely since the last time I posted about them. My new preferences can be found at: www.christianforums.com/t7555317-post66764747/#post66764747. EDIT Jan. 25. 2015: I complement my preferences at: www.christianforums.com/t7860715-post66953200/#post66953200

... this is mostly about English Bible versions, also listing some certain passages. EDIT evening Dec. 14. 2014: clarification: there are lot of NT choices and a little bit about the Deuterocanonicals in the link and of course which 38-book OT versions I've been currently using. I realize few followed the link thinking it would be only about the OT. Although in my world "Bible" means more than the OT.

 

To large parts I feel rather lost about which English versions to use for which parts of the Old Testament. So I would want to know what English Bible versions other users recommend for specific passages! I have the Accordance MT-LXX Parallel module (bought used) as well as about all essential lexicons. It'll be many years before I take any Hebrew classes and it'll only be at a beginner-level.

 

Regarding a couple of details in what I wrote in that post I linked to: I'm quite indecisive about whether to get New Testament Library (NTL). Probably I won't buy it as it's so expensive and I would not use all volumes.

Edited by Unix
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As with most things, it all comes down to the scope of your research: For what specific reason do you wish to use these translations? If this, however, is a question of picking a translation that matches the Masoretic text the most, you'll run into the same problem with all of them: The respective translators all had to make (sometimes exceedingly difficult) choices when deciding on what a given word (with many different meanings) or idiom should be translated as, essentially making the final product an interpretation rather than a translation. In reality, there is no such thing in this world as a "translation", as the word would imply that the scale of the original text matches the translation 1:1, which is impossible. In that regard, picking a translation is a matter of personal taste.

 

But you're in for a real treat, once you start your Hebrew classes. It's loads of fun - and it will solve your dilemma completely, once you've mastered it. At that point, all translations will serve as second opinions and nothing more.

 

With kind regards

 

Peter Christensen

Edited by Pchris
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As Peter Christensen says, it depends a lot on what you are looking for in a translation. What exactly has you feeling lost? What are the characteristics of your ideal translation?

 

In the lay servant classes I teach, I recommend that students choose 2 translations: one a formal equivalence ("word for word") translation, the other a dynamic equivalence ("thought for thought") translation. I also suggest they take reading level into account. Here is one chart of translations. A google search will reveal more charts and descriptions.

 

My primary translation is the NRSV, but I always check the NET and frequently several others.

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generally speaking the theology may be the most important aspect. I recently wrote about denominations: http://www.christianforums.com/t7855677-post66756884/#poststop

The best version, no matter whether it's formal equivalent or dynamic equivalent.

 

If You can tell me which version is the best for a specific verse or chapter, I'm all ears. Although at times You may want to explain Your theology when You do that.

 

When it comes to the 38-book Old Testament and 1 Mc it's difficult to choose just one main translation as there are a lot worse textual problems than in the New Testament. I would like to use the LXX for many parts but I want to know for which parts not to use it - I've began to narrow it down.

 

If I read more introductions in commentaries and issues about a few specific passage, I'll better understand how to tackle the books. I have some. When it comes to GJn I don't have extremely recent ones but I do have the most massive introduction (new Edition which was supposed to come out in the Anchor Yale Bible Commentary series). Recently I wished on https://www.facebook.com/logosforcatholics for commentaries on: Ex (current ones), Judg, Hos, 1 Mc (current ones), Ph (current ones), Jas, Jude. (I don't have Facebook so I posted with my best friend's account.)

 

Lorinda, several of the versions in that particular chart I wouldn't use at all such as: AMP, HCSB, KJV Old Testament, The Message, the 1970 NAB (but I do usually use the NABRE for the 38-book Old Testament when I don't have a clue what version to use), NASB, NCV, NIrV, NKJV. Unfortunately I don't have the TNIV. I have both NIV Editions in Accordance (but neither one in Verbum): 1984 and 2011.
Note to those who didn't know: GNT, CEV and GW are "related" or the same branch in the translation tree.

Another version I have is: Updated Bible Version 2.15 (and 2.16) by Greg Abrams. He started out with the 1901 ASV since it was public domain and is updating it little-by-little. The language in it has been mostly updated, at least a machine-update.
I also have Moffatt New Testament and am wanting to use it as it's the closest predecessor to the RSV, him having worked on both.

A version which hasn't been mentioned and I don't like the theology of it particularly much: is the CEB. I would however need proof if someone says it's the best for a passage. So far I only use it for the Lord's Prayer in Mt 6:9-13.

 

Regarding language: I'm OK with English from different periods in time. Obviously I'm also OK mixing from one verse, chapter or book to another.

Edited by Unix
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The difficulty is that "best" is very subjective....and "best theologically" even more so. I doubt that my theological presuppositions would be the same as yours, meaning what I see as "best" may not be acceptable to you.

 

Since theology is important to you in this regard, I recommend that you get access to print copies of the various translations and read their introductions. (In some cases, those are provided in electronic versions as well). That will give you a sense of the theological assumptions/guidelines of the translators.

 

I'd also suggest you make use of the NET translation for it's copious notes on textual and interpretive matters.

 

Lorinda

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The difficulty is that "best" is very subjective....and "best theologically" even more so. I doubt that my theological presuppositions would be the same as yours, meaning what I see as "best" may not be acceptable to you.

 

Since theology is important to you in this regard, I recommend that you get access to print copies of the various translations and read their introductions. (In some cases, those are provided in electronic versions as well). That will give you a sense of the theological assumptions/guidelines of the translators.

 

I'd also suggest you make use of the NET translation for it's copious notes on textual and interpretive matters.

 

Lorinda

 

 

I agree completely. This problem reminds me of - and relates to - what John Locke said about orthodoxy and subjectivity in his Letter concerning Toleration.

 

"But if one of these churches hath this power of treating the other ill, I ask which of them it is to whom that power belongs, and by what right? It will be answered, undoubtedly, that it is the orthodox church which has the right of authority over the erroneous or heretical. This is, in great and specious words, to say just nothing at all. For every church is orthodox to itself, to others, erroneous or heretical. Whatsoever any church believes, it believes to be true; and the contrary thereupon it pronounces to be error."

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If the Valentinians under the leadership of Ptolemy copied any Bible manuscripts I sure would have liked them to be preserved.

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Oh, you're interested in gnosticism?

 

There aren't any such Biblical manuscripts preserved, at least to my knowledge, but the closest thing would be Nag Hammadi library corpus. It contains a bunch of extra-biblical texts, but none of the canon ones. I remember reading "The Hypostasis of the Archons" back when I was learning Coptic, and it might have what you need. It is a re-telling of the world creation and the flood story known from Genesis, but with more details. Many characters known from other gnostic writings are present and it's full of gnostic lore. I had a blast reading that one.

Edited by Pchris
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Anyone want to try saying which version is best for a passage and might suit the theology I prefer for the passage as well? Whether a standalone English Bible or the English version in a commentary (even if You doubt I have the particular one You have in mind). The most interesting parts are: the 38-book Old Testament; 1 Mc; Lk 3, 4:1f, 4:14-9:50; GJn; 2 Cor 8-9; Col; Jas; Jude.

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To give a couple of examples, I'm interested in books such Deuteronomy, Hosea, and in the long run Jeremiah.

 

If You click the link in the OP You can see many NT choices I've made. Just in case anyone would be interested in my second opinion. It's been a decade of effort.

EDIT, some removed in edit2: If it's not worthwhile following a link there's not any great chance I would have convinced many even if I would have posted the entire text content of the post here for convenience.
edit2: So, let's discuss these verse- chapter or book-specific Bible version choices! I hope someone posts suggestions here regarding some of the most interesting parts where I haven't got far myself choosing versions! I've been taking Gk class since Sept. '14.

Edited by Unix
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  • 1 month later...

bump! Are there certain passages for which any of You users use specific English versions? I would like to hear!

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I am just curious which one of the the 39 books of the Old Testament do you reject... I primarily use NRSV/NJB all most exclusively REB is very useful too. The NETS (New English Translation of the Septuagint) is useful for understanding the LXX but it can wildly divate from the Hebrew. I also like The Message, for while it is more or less paraphrased it does a good job trying to express the text in a most organic way. I also often consult God's Word, but perhaps that is just because I was raised Lutheran I enjoy that Lutheran sponsored translation.

 

“What shall I bring when I come before the Lord, when I bow before God on high? Am I to come before him with whole-offerings, with yearling calves? Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams or ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I offer my eldest son for my wrongdoing, my child for the sin I have committed? The Lord has told you mortals what is good, and what it is that the Lord requires of you: only to act justly, to love loyalty, to walk humbly with your God.”

(Micah 6:6–8 REB)
“‘With what shall I enter Yahweh’s presence and bow down before God All-high? Shall I enter with burnt offerings, with calves one year old? Will he be pleased with rams by the thousand, with ten thousand streams of oil? Shall I offer my eldest son for my wrong-doing, the child of my own body for my sin? ‘You have already been told what is right and what Yahweh wants of you. Only this, to do what is right, to love loyalty and to walk humbly with your God.’”
(Micah 6:6–8 NJB)
““With what shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before God on high? Shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old? Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousands of rivers of oil? Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?” He has told you, O mortal, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?”
(Micah 6:6–8 NRSV)
"With what should I lay hold of the Lord;
shall I lay claim to my God Most High?
Shall I lay hold of him with whole burnt offerings,
with calves a year old?
Will the Lord receive favorably among thousands of rams
or among ten thousands of swollen streams?
Should I give my firstborns for impious acts,
the fruit of my belly for the sin of my soul?"
Has it been told to you, O man, what is good
or what the Lord seeks from you,
but to do judgment and to love mercy
and to be ready to walk with the Lord, your God. (Micah 6:6–8 NETS)

 

“How can I stand up before GOD and show proper respect to the high God? Should I bring an armload of offerings topped off with yearling calves? Would GOD be impressed with thousands of rams, with buckets and barrels of olive oil? Would he be moved if I sacrificed my firstborn child, my precious baby, to cancel my sin?

But he’s already made it plain how to live, what to do, what GOD is looking for in men and women. It’s quite simple: Do what is fair and just to your neighbor, be compassionate and loyal in your love, And don’t take yourself too seriously— take God seriously.”
(Micah 6:6–8 MESSAGE)
“What should I bring when I come into the LORD’s presence, when I bow in front of the God of heaven? Should I bring him year-old calves as burnt offerings? Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams or with endless streams of olive oil? Should I give him my firstborn child because of my rebellious acts? Should I give him my young child for my sin? You mortals, the LORD has told you what is good. This is what the LORD requires from you: to do what is right, to love mercy, and to live humbly with your God.”
(Micah 6:6–8 GWORD)

 

bump! Are there certain passages for which any of You users use specific English versions? I would like to hear!

 

I prefer NJB for Psalm 127....

 

“In vain you get up earlier, and put off going to bed, sweating to make a living, since it is he who provides for his beloved as they sleep.”

 

(Psalms 127:2 NJB)
“In vain do you rise early and stay up late, you who toil for the bread you eat; He provides as much for His loved ones while they sleep.”
(Psalms 127:2 JPS)
“It is in vain that you rise up early and go late to rest, eating the bread of anxious toil; for he gives sleep to his beloved.”
(Psalms 127:2 NRSV)
It is in vain for you to rise up early,
to get up after sitting down,
O you who eat bread of pain,
when he gives sleep to his beloved ones (Psalms 126:2 NETS)
You see the NRSV follows the thought of LXX, while the NJB follows closer to the Hebrew idea as preserved above in the NJPS/Tanak 85. Many interpreter's see this verse as speaking to the gift of conception, but for me the NJB preserves the ideal and possibilities of simply God's gracious providence. That is not to say a good nights sleep in itself is not a blessing. In sharing the Micah passage above I wanted to show how little the variations are for the most part..although the various translations offer subtle differences that offer a broader understanding. The Message which is paraphrased from the Hebrew/Greek tries it's best to convey the passage and it's emotions and spirit of it's message. I think Peterson has done an admirable job (his take on the Psalm above is very close to NRSV/LXX)... There is nothing wrong with consulting various translation but it likely is best to start off with one and go from there. For me the NRSV is my usual starting point or the NJB.
Dan
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On accordance ios my go to is the tagged jps with study bible. Pre accordance ios it was my jerusalem bible (study) since 1972 and the jps (study) both hard copy. But like dan i also use the nrsv, tagged, but also esv and niv (both tagged) and net.

 

But it so depends what i am looking at the passage for.

If preaching, what is the version that will actually used in that church is usually my starting point.

I may also get to it from carson beale, in which case it depends what i am using at the time.

 

the beauty of accordance is that it is very quick to be able to see a number of translations rather than having piles of books spread out around where you are working.

Edited by ukfraser
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