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Psalm 51:1 appears to be missing


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#1 Nathan Lovell

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:54 AM

Hi,

Psalm 51:1 appears to be missing (the entire verse) in every version of the Hebrew text I own - BHS-W4, BHT, as well as HMT-W4. This is true both on Accordance for Mac, as well as iOS.

In the hard-copy BHS I have on my shelf it is present: למנצח מזמור לדוד

Is something weird going on?

Thanks

#2 Michael J. Bolesta

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:21 AM

Hmm... I cannot replicate. It is present for me when I open those modules.

Michael


#3 Ken Simpson

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:38 AM

Nathan,
How are you brother! It looks to me (at least in my versions) that the words you put in above are missing - which is v1 in the printed BHS - (TO THE CHOIRMASTER. A PSALM OF DAVID,) but the second half of the verse (WHEN NATHAN THE PROPHET WENT TO HIM, AFTER HE HAD GONE IN TO BATHSHEBA.) - which is v2 - seems to be there. It seems to follow the versification of the LXX.

Doesn't appear in HMT-T, BHS-T, or BHS-W4 in my texts either.

Michael, could you do a screencap your resources?

This is what I see, and the missing points circled

Attached File  Workspace.png   285.74KB   36 downloads

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Edited by Ken Simpson, 19 November 2012 - 05:57 AM.

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Ken
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#4 Sean R.

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:37 AM

The problem is that you are viewing the Hebrew texts in parallel with an English translation (i.e., the English translation is the search text). If you open one of your Hebrew texts as the search text, v. 1 will appear.

Due to the differing versification schemes between the Hebrew texts and most English translations, Accordance has to adjust texts viewed in parallel to match up verse-wise with the search text. This sometimes results in a verse being eliminated, especially if it doesn't have a correlating verse in the search text. Looks like in this case, the database needs to be tweaked a bit.

Edited by Sean R., 19 November 2012 - 08:41 AM.

Sean Reed

#5 Julie Falling

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:08 AM

Sean - I've had the same thing happen when versification differs between English versions, or between an English version and the GNT-T.

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#6 Sean R.

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:23 AM

Good point, Julie—this can happen with Greek texts as well. It's a good idea to always open the original language text on its own (or set it as the search text) whenever one suspects a verse may be missing.
Sean Reed

#7 Ken Simpson

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:08 PM

Thanks Sean,
you know I knew of the versification issues, but didn't put this one together. Thanks!

Always learning... :)

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Ken
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#8 Nathan Lovell

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:31 AM

OK. Thanks everyone.

I understand what's happening, and I even understand why. I'm still not convinced that it shouldn't be fixed though. It's hard to see it as a helpful feature!

#9 Michael J. Bolesta

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 05:32 AM

While I see your frustration, it is not a feature. It reflects the variations in versification (not part of the original text) that different translations follow. Sometimes in the OT a translation will rearrange some text to make more sense of it. In both OT and NT, some text traditions have more or less verses. Accordance makes the left most text "set the rule" for display, and lets the corresponding parallel texts follow suit, matching verse to verse. It is logical.

Programmers could comment if it could be "fixed" but suspect it would not be easy, as the algorithm would have to "notice" the direction to display, and "know" whether to combine or split verses.

Michael


#10 Michael J. Bolesta

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:20 PM

My last post may seem harsh. That was not my intention, but it anyone read it that way, accept my apologies.

I have thought about it more. Consider Mark 7:14ff. If one places the KJV and a standard GNT (GNT-T, NA27, UBS4) in parallel and search by reference in KJV, 7:16 appears in KJV but its absence is marked by a double dash (--). Searching in the GNT text eliminates the double dash, and 7:16 no longer appears in the KJV pane since it has no counterpart in the search text. This is a more subtle form of the issue raised by Nathan. One has to notice discontinuous numbering of the verses. I tend to "ignore" the numbers, concentrating on the words, so I can miss this.

It may be well (if the programmers find it feasible) to somehow flag discontinuities regardless of which text serves as the search text. That way users can examine the parallel to see the differences.

Right now, users are alerted by the double dash when a verse is "missing" in the parallel. But it is simply omitted in the "longer" text if that shorter parallel becomes the search text.

It amazes me that Accordance does as well as it does for works such as Psalms and Ben Sira, characterized by numerous versification schemata.

Michael





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