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#1 Marco V. Fabbri

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 02:37 PM

In the GNT-T syntax add-on, circumstantial (also called adverbial) Clauses are an important subset of Adjunct Clauses, namely those that depend on a Predicate Phrase. Among circumstantial Clauses we can find such well-known sub-classes of Clauses as causal Clauses, temporal Clauses, purpose Clauses, result Clauses, and so on.

How can we distinguish between on sub-class and another? I am calling them sub-classes for practical purposes, that will become apparent later. For now, let’s say that a distinction is drawn basing on the semantics of the conjunction that introduces the Clause.
Let’s give a few examples of conjunctions and corresponding circumstantial Clauses: the conjunction ὅτι introduces a causal Clause, the conjunction ὅτε introduces a temporal Clause, the conjunction ὥστε introduces a result Clause, the conjunction ὅπως introduces a purpose Clause, the conjunction εἰ introduce a conditional Clause, and so on.

In Accordance, even without the syntax add-on the GNT-T module allows us to search for conjunctions: in the Search Text window, we can enter a group of conjunctions, let’s say conditional conjunctions. We may write by hand:

ει <OR> εαν <OR> ειπερ

Or we may use the “Enter Tag” search command, as follows:

  • Open the Search Text window
  • From the Menu Search, select “Enter Tag”, then choose “Conjunction”
  • When prompted, select Subclass “conditional”, then press Return or click OK
  • Press Return or click on the Search button to perform the search

The results will show all the verses that contain one of the conditional conjunctions. In order to know what conjunctions were found, we can click on the Details menu, and choose Analysis.

Now enters the syntax add-on: using the Construct window, the syntax allows us to have a circumstantial Clause follow the conjunction. We need to take into account that the conjunction lies outside the Clause boundary, usually immediately before it. Sometimes a particle like δέ may stand between the conjunction and the Clause, so we will need to use the WITHIN element.

We will build the search as follows:
  • Open a new Search Text, choose GNT-T as search text, and choose to search for Words (not Verses) within every Chapter or Book (not Verse, etc)
  • Open a new Greek Construct (Command-2), that will be automatically linked to the Search Text
  • In the Greek Construct window, drag the Conj. element and drop it into the first column
  • When prompted, choose Subclass: conditional, then click OK or press Return
  • Drag the element CLAUSE and drop it into the second column
  • When prompted, choose Dependent clause only, then Adjunct
  • Drag the element WITHIN and drop it between the first and the second column.
  • When prompted, enter 3, then click OK or press Return
  • Press Return or click on the Search button to perform the search

The results will look like this:

Attached File  Screen shot 2011-11-13 at 20.35.41.PNG   261.68KB   42 downloads

For the moment, the results look just like those we had already found. But now we are also searching for the Clause, and we can use it in order to look for specific sets of conditional clauses. We know that Tense or Mood of the Verb determine what kind of condition we have: real, potential, expected or unreal (see Blass-Debrunner-Funk §§ 371-373).

If the Verb takes the Present or Perfect Indicative, the emphasis will be on the reality of the assumption. We can modify our search as follows:

  • In the Greek Construct window, drag the element Verb and drop it into the firs column of the Adjun. DEPENDENT Clause
  • When prompted, Shift-click to present; then Shift-click to choose: Tense: perfect
  • Also choose Mood: Indicative, then click OK or press Return
  • Press Return or click on the Search button to perform the search

The results will look like this:

Attached File  Screen shot 2011-11-14 at 12.32.51.PNG   200.47KB   44 downloads

If we want to find instead unreal conditions, we will need to modify the tense to imperfect, aorist or pluperfect. This can be done as follows:

  • Double-click the element Verb
  • When prompted, Shift-click to choose Tense: imperfect; then Shift-click to choose: Tense: aorist; then Shift-click to choose: Tense: pluperfect
  • Press Return or click on the Search button to perform the search

The results will look like this:

Attached File  Screen shot 2011-11-14 at 12.38.33.PNG   231.43KB   32 downloads

If we want to find instead potential conditions, which take the optative, we will need to remove the Tense and change the Mood to Mood: optative

The results will look like this:

Attached File  optative.PNG   216.53KB   17 downloads

If we want to find instead expected conditions, which take the subjunctive, we will need to remove the Tense and change the Mood: indicative to Mood: subjunctive

The results will look like this:

Attached File  Screen shot 2011-11-13 at 20.32.45.PNG   256.38KB   24 downloads

Attached Files


Edited by Marco V. Fabbri, 14 November 2011 - 07:06 AM.

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#2 Marco V. Fabbri

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 06:29 AM

This has changed in the November 2013 update.

 

I have now moved the conjunctions inside the subordinate Clause boundary.

 

The reasons are several:

  1. in this way, the Greek Syntax works in the same way as the Hebrew Syntax;
  2. searches were sometimes counter-intuitive; now they are more intuitive
  3. the old way, under some conditions, some expected results were not shown. Now they are

Now, in the construct window, the conditional conjunction need to go inside of the Subrodinate Clause


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#3 Michael J. Bolesta

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 04:10 PM

A November 2013 update to Greek Syntax is not showing up in Content Updates for me. It not in Easy Install either. Has this been released yet?


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#4 Michael J. Bolesta

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 05:58 PM

I rechecked Content Updates and version 2.0 was there. Thank you Fr. Marco!


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#5 Marco V. Fabbri

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 04:30 AM

My pleasure.


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#6 fmcfee

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 05:52 PM

Fr. Marco,

 

Thanks for this post....I have  been looking for a way to better understand conditional clauses...However, my version of syntax is at 1.6 not 2.0 and I have checked for updates and found no updates.....so my "hits" are a lot less....I guess that is an Accordance issue...thanks again for your time invested in doing this post!

 

Frank



#7 Helen Brown

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 02:56 PM

Frank: are you checking for content updates?


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#8 fmcfee

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 03:32 PM

Frank: are you checking for content updates?

Helen,

 

Yes I am...I just updated the Hebrew  syntax from 2.0 to 2.1...I checked both my MAC and Windows Greek syntax version and it is 1.6.....should I delete this (not sure how to do that) and see if I could update via easy install?...Thanks for your help!

Frank



#9 Helen Brown

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 04:01 PM

We are now maintaining and updating only the GNT28-T syntax. That's the catch. The syntax update is free but must be ordered online. The GNT28-T update is $9.99. Sorry for the confusion.


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#10 fmcfee

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 04:30 PM

We are now maintaining and updating only the GNT28-T syntax. That's the catch. The syntax update is free but must be ordered online. The GNT28-T update is $9.99. Sorry for the confusion.

Helen,

 

Thanks..that is not a problem...however, I never got an update notice for this...normally, I get update notices for both free and paid updates..

 

I now have syntax ver 2.0 for GNT-28 But

 

The problem is I just purchased the update for GNT to GNT-28 but was not able to download it...the box is grayed out on easy install...(I realized that my GNT was based on NA27 not NA28 and that is why I could not match the hits...I am not sure why it would not work when I entered the search text and construct for GNT-28)....there is nothing I can do to match the search results of 217 hits (see my screen shot)

 

 

 

Update: I do have GNT-28 but when I set the search text to GNT it searches based on GNT based on NA-27

 

So I guess I will call support on Friday

 

I appreciate your help!..

Frank

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Edited by fmcfee, 27 November 2013 - 06:32 PM.


#11 Daniel Semler

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 08:50 PM

Hi Frank,

 

  I've tried in the past to reproduce the results in some of these tutorials and a great deal of water has passed under the bridge since the time they were written - 2 years at this point. I am guessing you are trying to repro. the unreal conditions. Running this against the GNT28-T I get 91 hits. Is that what you are seeing ? You seem to be getting 70 if I read your image correctly.

 

  If that's the case I'd open a clean workspace and open GNT28-T and open the 28 syntax in parallel and the construct. And see if that gets the same result I get.

 

  I am not qualified to speak on the accuracy of the results but if we both try the same things with the same software version and modules we should at least get the same results now. At that point we can consider what might be different in the past though it will get speculative in a hurry. One thing I note in Marco's image for this case is that the Matt 10:25 and 11:21 cases do not appear to be within 3.

 

Thx

D


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#12 fmcfee

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 11:18 AM

Hi Frank,

 

  I've tried in the past to reproduce the results in some of these tutorials and a great deal of water has passed under the bridge since the time they were written - 2 years at this point. I am guessing you are trying to repro. the unreal conditions. Running this against the GNT28-T I get 91 hits. Is that what you are seeing ? You seem to be getting 70 if I read your image correctly.

 

  If that's the case I'd open a clean workspace and open GNT28-T and open the 28 syntax in parallel and the construct. And see if that gets the same result I get.

 

  I am not qualified to speak on the accuracy of the results but if we both try the same things with the same software version and modules we should at least get the same results now. At that point we can consider what might be different in the past though it will get speculative in a hurry. One thing I note in Marco's image for this case is that the Matt 10:25 and 11:21 cases do not appear to be within 3.

 

Thx

D

Daniel,

 

You are right....91 hits (based on GNT) and 70 hits (GNT28-T)....based on "irreal" conditions...I get Matt 10:25 and 11:21 only when the search test is set to GNT  not GNT28-T...I am trying to reproduce Fr. Marco results....but when I set the search based on GNT the "searched" text results in not based on NA28 but on NA27....so I was thinking I am missing something.....I want to be able to reproduce Fr. Marco results for my study.....I can't figure out what I am doing wrong......thanks for your reply..

 

Frank



#13 Daniel Semler

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 12:35 PM

Hi Frank,

 

  I think you may have stated that backwards - did you mean "91 hits (based on GNT) and 70 hits (GNT28-T).." or 91 on GNT28-T and 70 on GNT ?

 

  I just tried the two searches and I get 91 on the GNT28-T and 93 on the GNT-T. The two additional are those from Matt mentioned above. And i also think that the WITHIN may be being evaluated in a different manner from that which I first assumed. I need to check this out but I wonder if its being evaluated as the distance between the conjunction and the dependent adjunct clause boundary. I'll have to study the syntax charts to be sure.

 

  As to 217 there is a problem here. I know that Marco has a more complete set of syntax than has currently been published, because as I say, I've asked exactly this kind of question before. And in any case he's developing it. Thus I do not know if its his results draw on more of the new testament than you and I currently have syntax for. Fr. Marco would have to comment on that, or rerun his query with a range restriction to the books that have so far been published, or we'd have to get hold of the exact syntax he has. I'm pretty sure that there have been changes in the code and the tagging as well over the two years. So its really tricky to do a correct comparison at this point with some many variables. One thought I had was to try to do a non-syntax based search - one based only on morphology and see if that is enlightening.

 

  I think we are also seeing a bug in the tool (Acc) which is misleading. At the bottom of the construct tab there is an indication as to which tab the search is linked to. I am pretty sure this used to indicate the tab which was in focus at the time you created the construct search tab - by CMD 2 or the menu. However now it always shows the first such tab name. I also was pretty sure you could change the linkage by clicking on it but that now only brings the relevant tab to the fore. I don't know what's going on here exactly but I did a GNT-T search in a new workspace and the construct tab in that new workspace still referred to the first tab associated with a construct in the previous workspace. I also don't know what one can infer from this indicator as to what is happening with the search. Hopefully someone from Acc can comment on this.

 

Thx

D
 


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#14 fmcfee

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 01:42 PM

Hi Frank,

 

  I think you may have stated that backwards - did you mean "91 hits (based on GNT) and 70 hits (GNT28-T).." or 91 on GNT28-T and 70 on GNT ?

 

  I just tried the two searches and I get 91 on the GNT28-T and 93 on the GNT-T. The two additional are those from Matt mentioned above. And i also think that the WITHIN may be being evaluated in a different manner from that which I first assumed. I need to check this out but I wonder if its being evaluated as the distance between the conjunction and the dependent adjunct clause boundary. I'll have to study the syntax charts to be sure.

 

  As to 217 there is a problem here. I know that Marco has a more complete set of syntax than has currently been published, because as I say, I've asked exactly this kind of question before. And in any case he's developing it. Thus I do not know if its his results draw on more of the new testament than you and I currently have syntax for. Fr. Marco would have to comment on that, or rerun his query with a range restriction to the books that have so far been published, or we'd have to get hold of the exact syntax he has. I'm pretty sure that there have been changes in the code and the tagging as well over the two years. So its really tricky to do a correct comparison at this point with some many variables. One thought I had was to try to do a non-syntax based search - one based only on morphology and see if that is enlightening.

 

  I think we are also seeing a bug in the tool (Acc) which is misleading. At the bottom of the construct tab there is an indication as to which tab the search is linked to. I am pretty sure this used to indicate the tab which was in focus at the time you created the construct search tab - by CMD 2 or the menu. However now it always shows the first such tab name. I also was pretty sure you could change the linkage by clicking on it but that now only brings the relevant tab to the fore. I don't know what's going on here exactly but I did a GNT-T search in a new workspace and the construct tab in that new workspace still referred to the first tab associated with a construct in the previous workspace. I also don't know what one can infer from this indicator as to what is happening with the search. Hopefully someone from Acc can comment on this.

 

Thx

D
 

Daniel,

Thanks for your help...I get 91 hits using GNT and 91 hits using GNT28-T....like you said Fr. Marco may be using something we don't have yet...in all my searches..I specify "within 3 words"...I tried to exactly follow his instructions...

 

Frank



#15 Marco V. Fabbri

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 07:59 AM

I confirm that I am working on a more extended database of the whole New Testament. This is why, when I perform a search the total hits are higher.

 

As for the syntax of GNT-T, it was released before the change that includes conjunctions within subordinate clauses, so the search should be performed the old way.


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#16 fmcfee

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 12:18 PM

I confirm that I am working on a more extended database of the whole New Testament. This is why, when I perform a search the total hits are higher.

 

As for the syntax of GNT-T, it was released before the change that includes conjunctions within subordinate clauses, so the search should be performed the old way.

Fr. Marco,

Thanks for your reply...I so appreciate your scholarship and assistance in the Greek syntax..I am a"very beginner" at this but I can see how this can assist me in my studies....

 

Frank
 



#17 Daniel Semler

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 02:21 PM

Thanx Marco. Any guess as to when we might see the whole new testament syntax ? I understand if you can't really say, but I'm very interested in this. I hope to begin a serious study of the syntax support in the new year.

 

Thx

D


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#18 Marco V. Fabbri

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 07:05 AM

Daniel, it is difficult to say because of unexpected problems, that require me to change or do again what I had already done. Together with them, there improvements and better solutions to existing problems, that also require work.

 

I think that the recent inclusion of conjunctions within subordinate clauses is a big improvement.


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#19 Daniel Semler

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 11:19 AM

Understood and good luck.

 

Many thanx

D


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#20 fmcfee

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 12:45 PM

Hi Frank,

 

  I think you may have stated that backwards - did you mean "91 hits (based on GNT) and 70 hits (GNT28-T).." or 91 on GNT28-T and 70 on GNT ?

 

  I just tried the two searches and I get 91 on the GNT28-T and 93 on the GNT-T. The two additional are those from Matt mentioned above. And i also think that the WITHIN may be being evaluated in a different manner from that which I first assumed. I need to check this out but I wonder if its being evaluated as the distance between the conjunction and the dependent adjunct clause boundary. I'll have to study the syntax charts to be sure.

 

  As to 217 there is a problem here. I know that Marco has a more complete set of syntax than has currently been published, because as I say, I've asked exactly this kind of question before. And in any case he's developing it. Thus I do not know if its his results draw on more of the new testament than you and I currently have syntax for. Fr. Marco would have to comment on that, or rerun his query with a range restriction to the books that have so far been published, or we'd have to get hold of the exact syntax he has. I'm pretty sure that there have been changes in the code and the tagging as well over the two years. So its really tricky to do a correct comparison at this point with some many variables. One thought I had was to try to do a non-syntax based search - one based only on morphology and see if that is enlightening.

 

  I think we are also seeing a bug in the tool (Acc) which is misleading. At the bottom of the construct tab there is an indication as to which tab the search is linked to. I am pretty sure this used to indicate the tab which was in focus at the time you created the construct search tab - by CMD 2 or the menu. However now it always shows the first such tab name. I also was pretty sure you could change the linkage by clicking on it but that now only brings the relevant tab to the fore. I don't know what's going on here exactly but I did a GNT-T search in a new workspace and the construct tab in that new workspace still referred to the first tab associated with a construct in the previous workspace. I also don't know what one can infer from this indicator as to what is happening with the search. Hopefully someone from Acc can comment on this.

 

Thx

D
 

Daniel,

 

I finally got things straight between GNT (which is based on NA-27) and GNT28-T which is based on NA-28 and should be used for syntax and will be maintained in Accordance (my understanding)...I tried doing a search for "unreal" conditions using the command line and got 212 hits (I did "within 5 words" not 3)...I realize this is not based on syntax and I am really  a beginner at Greek, but it is closer in hits (217 for Fr. Marco)...I am attaching a screen shot....I like that Accordance has multiple ways of doing the same things.....any comments you have would be appreciated...I really would like to better understand "conditional" phrase in both Greek and Hebrew....I do have Wallace Greek grammar as well the majority of others like Mounce, Stevens, etc

 

Frank

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Edited by fmcfee, 30 November 2013 - 01:21 PM.





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