Robert N Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I am wondering if there is a Strong's for any of the English Translations of the Septuagint? Does anyone know? I would like to be able to search on an English world like fear and see how i is used throughout a greek translation of the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Bennett Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I am wondering if there is a Strong's for any of the English Translations of the Septuagint? Does anyone know? I would like to be able to search on an English world like fear and see how i is used throughout a greek translation of the Bible. We do not currently have anything like this. One of the difficulties is that Strong's Greek entries were keyed to the GNT, and the LXX is a substantially larger corpus. There are thousands of words in the LXX that are not in the GNT. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert N Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 We do not currently have anything like this. One of the difficulties is that Strong's Greek entries were keyed to the GNT, and the LXX is a substantially larger corpus. There are thousands of words in the LXX that are not in the GNT. Rick, Thanks for taking the time to reply. I am wondering if a first step of a Strongs for the words that are in both could be made and then possibly periodic additions of the words in the LXX that are not in the GNT beginning with the most frequently occurring and ending with the least frequently occurring? Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Bennett Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Rick, Thanks for taking the time to reply. I am wondering if a first step of a Strongs for the words that are in both could be made and then possibly periodic additions of the words in the LXX that are not in the GNT beginning with the most frequently occurring and ending with the least frequently occurring? Robert Yes, that would certainly be a start, but doesn't make it any less daunting of a task! ;-) There are also other textual issues involved, e.g. what source text or language was used for a particular translation. Some books are translated from multiple languages depending on what was more complete. Tobit in the NRSV is actually a translation of multiple Greek texts (located in what we call LXX1 and LXX2). Some books follow the G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorinda H. M. Hoover Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I realize a daunting task--perhaps so daunting as to be impossible to implement--but it is something I would find very helpful, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert N Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 Yes, that would certainly be a start, but doesn't make it any less daunting of a task! ;-) There are also other textual issues involved, e.g. what source text or language was used for a particular translation. Some books are translated from multiple languages depending on what was more complete. Tobit in the NRSV is actually a translation of multiple Greek texts (located in what we call LXX1 and LXX2). Some books follow the G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorinda H. M. Hoover Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Beginning with a bundle and adding appending the Strong's Greek with the LXX words that are not found in the GNT seems like a course of action. http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif One difficulty with this approach is that the Strongs Greek numbers are in alphabetical order. All the non-GNT Greek words would have to be given numbers starting after 5624 (the last number in Greek Strong's). Which would leave one with two alphabetical lists. In some ways, it would be better (but far more work!) to devise a whole new numbering system just for the LXX. And it is my understanding that our knowledge of Biblical Greek has come a long ways since Strong's, bringing into question some of the assumptions in Strong's numbering system. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 One difficulty with this approach is that the Strongs Greek numbers are in alphabetical order. All the non-GNT Greek words would have to be given numbers starting after 5624 (the last number in Greek Strong's). Which would leave one with two alphabetical lists. In some ways, it would be better (but far more work!) to devise a whole new numbering system just for the LXX. And it is my understanding that our knowledge of Biblical Greek has come a long ways since Strong's, bringing into question some of the assumptions in Strong's numbering system. I think the project is a very worthy one that someone in our time needs undertake! I agree that in some ways it would be better to author a new numbering system. However, it wouldn't be entirely from scratch. Strongs and G/K could serve as resources, along with the many, many other lexical works that have emerged. Needless to say, I think the results would be phenomenal, in that English users could expand their studies to consider the influence of the Old Greek/Septuagint(s) on the writers of the New Testament.http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert N Posted October 24, 2011 Author Share Posted October 24, 2011 One difficulty with this approach is that the Strongs Greek numbers are in alphabetical order. All the non-GNT Greek words would have to be given numbers starting after 5624 (the last number in Greek Strong's). Which would leave one with two alphabetical lists. In some ways, it would be better (but far more work!) to devise a whole new numbering system just for the LXX. And it is my understanding that our knowledge of Biblical Greek has come a long ways since Strong's, bringing into question some of the assumptions in Strong's numbering system. When I used to program we used another place value to allow the insertion of code in numbered sequences. An example would be a 5601.500 for a new word which would insert between 5601 and 5602 and those would become 5601.000 and 5602.000. This would eliminate the sequencing issue and allow alphabetical insertions. Again, the first phase would be to supply Strong's for the LXX only for the already extant Strong's words. Then based on frequency of occurrence in the LXX add a few words at a time. I would sell up front because it would address many or the LXX words and as time progresses more and more would be added. Wouldn't that reduce the initial workload/effort substantially and spread the more difficult portions out over time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Bennett Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 When I used to program we used another place value to allow the insertion of code in numbered sequences. An example would be a 5601.500 for a new word which would insert between 5601 and 5602 and those would become 5601.000 and 5602.000. This would eliminate the sequencing issue and allow alphabetical insertions. Again, the first phase would be to supply Strong's for the LXX only for the already extant Strong's words. Then based on frequency of occurrence in the LXX add a few words at a time. I would sell up front because it would address many or the LXX words and as time progresses more and more would be added. Wouldn't that reduce the initial workload/effort substantially and spread the more difficult portions out over time? Hi Robert, I appreciate the suggestions, but the larger factor in this is simply the sheer size of the project (regardless of how the new entries are organized). We are currently in the midst of several large-scale tagging projects: Greek and Hebrew Syntax, Qumran Syntax, Syriac Peshitta, in addition to some other new resources. These existing projects need to progress further before we can seriously consider tagging an English translation of the LXX. The request is on our radar; in fact, it has been for some time. Thanks for your support. Rick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert N Posted December 27, 2011 Author Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) I have come across this as a module for another program... e-Sword. The module is called the the Apostolic Bible Polyglot. I am interested to know if this might short cut the process and bring us closer to the LXX with Strong's. Here is the info on it... Apostolic Bible Polyglot Copyright 1996 Charles Van der Pool. The Apostolic Bible Polyglot is a Greek-English Interlinear of the Greek Septuagint and New Testament coded to Strong's numbers. Free printable PDF's of the Apostolic Bible Polyglot may be downloaded and printed editions may be purchased at www.apostolicbible.com. Greek words which appear in the Septuagint but not in the New Testament are inserted with decimal points, such as G303.1. Proper names are numbered with an asterisk, such as G*. Here is the window of the module... Mal 4:1 ForG1360 behold,G2400 a dayG2250 comesG2064 burningG2545 asG5613 an oven;G2823 andG2532 it shall blaze against them,G5392.2 G1473 andG2532 [4will beG1510.8.6 1allG3956 2theG3588 3foreigners],G241 andG2532 allG3956 the onesG3588 doingG4160 lawless deeds,G459 as stubble.G2562 AndG2532 [4shall lightG381 5themG1473 1theG3588 2dayG2250 G3588 Edited December 27, 2011 by Robert N 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Bennett Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I have come across this as a module for another program... e-Sword. The module is called the the Apostolic Bible Polyglot. I am interested to know if this might short cut the process and bring us closer to the LXX with Strong's. Here is the info on it... Apostolic Bible Polyglot Copyright 1996 Charles Van der Pool. The Apostolic Bible Polyglot is a Greek-English Interlinear of the Greek Septuagint and New Testament coded to Strong's numbers. Free printable PDF's of the Apostolic Bible Polyglot may be downloaded and printed editions may be purchased at www.apostolicbible.com. Greek words which appear in the Septuagint but not in the New Testament are inserted with decimal points, such as G303.1. Proper names are numbered with an asterisk, such as G*. Here is the window of the module... Mal 4:1 ForG1360 behold,G2400 a dayG2250 comesG2064 burningG2545 asG5613 an oven;G2823 andG2532 it shall blaze against them,G5392.2 G1473 andG2532 [4will beG1510.8.6 1allG3956 2theG3588 3foreigners],G241 andG2532 allG3956 the onesG3588 doingG4160 lawless deeds,G459 as stubble.G2562 AndG2532 [4shall lightG381 5themG1473 1theG3588 2dayG2250 G3588 This was pointed out in another thread and I passed the info along; I can follow-up. And yes, if the work is already done, it would certainly short-cut the process. Thank you… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert N Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Any update on the status of this becoming a project especially in light of the Apostolic Polyglot Bible? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 We do not currently have anything like this. One of the difficulties is that Strong's Greek entries were keyed to the GNT, and the LXX is a substantially larger corpus. There are thousands of words in the LXX that are not in the GNT. Yes but, with the Goodrick-Kohlenberger numbers it will be possible. IF you and they are willing, to add this numbers to their system. Like this https://www.amazon.com/Strongest-NIV-Exhaustive-Concordance-Strongs/dp/0310262852/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1542446277&sr=1-5&keywords=goodrickand then they can add "NEW VERSION, Now with the words from the Septuagint". Have you asked the Copyright holder? Greetings Fabian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Bennett Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Yes but, with the Goodrick-Kohlenberger numbers it will be possible. IF you and they are willing, to add this numbers to their system. Like this https://www.amazon.com/Strongest-NIV-Exhaustive-Concordance-Strongs/dp/0310262852/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1542446277&sr=1-5&keywords=goodrickand then they can add "NEW VERSION, Now with the words from the Septuagint". Have you asked the Copyright holder? Greetings Fabian Whether Strong's or GK, the same problem(s) remain. And, I don't see what this has to do with the NIV Concordance. The NIV doesn't contain the Apocrypha, and the editor of the Concordance passed away shortly after the completion of the newest edition, which we partnered with him on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Whether Strong's or GK, the same problem(s) remain. And, I don't see what this has to do with the NIV Concordance. The NIV doesn't contain the Apocrypha, and the editor of the Concordance passed away shortly after the completion of the newest edition, which we partnered with him on. I think, maybe I'm wrong, the publisher have the rights now. They have sold it from the passed away writhers. So it would be possible to come in agreement with him and finish the work. Greetings Fabian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Bennett Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 I think, maybe I'm wrong, the publisher have the rights now. They have sold it from the passed away writhers. So it would be possible to come in agreement with him and finish the work. Greetings Fabian There's nothing to finish. The NIV Concordance is completely separate from this discussion. The GK numbers themselves are public domain. That still does not change the issues regarding the tagging of a particular translation of the Apocrypha. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattChristianOT Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 There's nothing to finish. The NIV Concordance is completely separate from this discussion. The GK numbers themselves are public domain. That still does not change the issues regarding the tagging of a particular translation of the Apocrypha. Has anyone looked into Hatch and Redpath? While flawed it essentially would do what is asked here, sans the Strongs numbers. Its a great LXX resource. I would also push for Muraoka's lexicon but that would not give a English to Greek option. I believe Hatch and Redpath has an index volume that should help that process (if memory serves I believe the index was made by Muraoka as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 (edited) There's nothing to finish. The NIV Concordance is completely separate from this discussion. The GK numbers themselves are public domain. That still does not change the issues regarding the tagging of a particular translation of the Apocrypha. If the LXX not tagged then this is not Finishedperiod. Just simple as that. Others can do it! And with the Latin too. Edited May 8, 2019 by Fabian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Bennett Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 If the LXX not tagged then this is not Finishedperiod. Just simple as that. Others can do it! Bildschirmfoto 2019-05-08 um 18.48.43.png And with the Latin too. There is nothing more to say on this subject at present. To summarize: We do not have any current plans to tag an English translation of the LXX with Strong's (or GK) numbers. It's a huge task, and not one that we are currently interested in investing in. Maybe that will change, but in the 7.5 years since this was originally posted, the decision has not changed. Strong's and GK were not designed to be applied to the LXX. Creating an alternate system that does apply to the LXX is counterproductive. These numbers are simply a bridge to the original language, and there are better ways to accomplish this. Since this thread was originally started, we have applied the Tov MT-LXX Database to our Interlinear feature. This will accomplish much of what is desired on this front, except that it will not cross-highlight to an English translation of the LXX. While there is value in this, and others may have done this to varying degrees, we have not done so at present. This thread will be closed after this reply. If there are new requests, please start a new thread. Thank you as always for everyone's feedback and support. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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