Jump to content


Photo

Finding answers in Accordance


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Bud Lengtat

Bud Lengtat

    Member

  • Active Members
  • Pip
  • 47 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Grass Valley, CA
  • Interests:the Bible
    my wife and kids (sons and daughters-in-law) and grandkids

    Rubik's Cubes and similar twisty puzzles

    birds and other critters, especially those that hang out at my place
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 13 July 2013 - 04:49 PM

In Luke 10.4 Jesus is sending out 72 disciples on an urgent mission and instructs them not to greet anyone on the road, among other things. I thought, "How silly, what's the harm in saying howdy to someone as you pass by on the road?" But knowing that Jesus was not being silly or thoughtless, and He must have had a good reason, I thought, "Well, why did Jesus say that?"

Using Accordance 10, and the tools I have installed in it, I tried to find out. Came up empty. Perhaps there are modules that would be more helpful that I should invest in.

So my question is, should I expect to be able to find answers to questions like this in Accordance? If so, what would be a good commentary to get in order to do so, for the least money?

As it is, I did a Google search for the answer online.

One resource I have that sheds a little light on the subject is an ESV Study Bible. It isn't in Accordance though, so I didn't even think about looking there at first. I wish I had a MacArthur Study Bible, or Commentary. Is the answer there?

#2 R. Mansfield

R. Mansfield

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,114 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kentucky
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 13 July 2013 - 08:14 PM

Various commentaries are going to be the key. Some will be more useful than others. I found a brief answer to your question in the first commentary I looked in--the Zondervan New International Biblical Background Commentary. Here is what was said about the verse:

 

"Do not greet anyone (10:4). A similar command was given by Elisha to his servant Gehazi in 2 Kings 4:29, when he sent him to place his staff on the face of the Shunammite’s dead son. The key there, as here, is the urgency of the task."


Rick Mansfield

Technology Evangelist

Accordance Bible Software

 


#3 Ken Simpson

Ken Simpson

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,588 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney, Australia
  • Interests:Astronomy
    Archaeology
    Physics
    Hebrew and Greek
    Papyrology
    Orthopædic Surgery
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 13 July 2013 - 10:29 PM

Hi Bud,

Rick is correct - commentaries are often the best way forward for issues like this. And the ZIBBC(NT and OT) are excellent resources for this sort of thing. Though they are perhaps more that your comment "for the least money" may be able to stretch to.

 

However I did want to say, we do have the ESV Study Bible available in Accordance, you  will find it here. $59 for the outright purchase, or $39 for an upgrade from ESV (which I assume is what most folks can do now since most will have the ESV text in Accordance 10.

 

An intermediate step might be the Bible Knowledge commentary set...which at $49 seems an excellent option to me. It's not exhaustive enough for the sort of work I do, but it's quite useful and as you can see below, gives a sense of what might be going on here (at least).

 

on Luke 10:4 it says this

 

 

10:1-12. Jesus gave instructions to the 72. Some Greek manuscripts in verses 1 and 17 have “70” and others have “72.” Both readings have strong support. The 72 were people other than the Twelve, who apparently remained with Jesus on His journey. The 72 were to prepare the way so that when Jesus came into a town, it would be ready for Him. When Jesus stated, Ask the Lord ... to send out workers, He implied that the ones asking were also to be workers (v. 2). Their mission was dangerous (v. 3) and required haste (v. 4). The 72 were supported by those who accepted their message (v. 7). Through hospitality people would show whether or not they believed the message of the kingdom. To the believing cities the message was to be, The kingdom of God is near you. The Messiah was coming, and He could bring in the kingdom. Even the cities that rejected the message were to be told that the kingdom was near. (For the meaning of wiping dust off their feet, see comments on 9:5).

 

John F. Walvoord and Roy B. Zuck, eds., The Bible Knowledge Commentary: New Testament (Accordance electronic ed. Wheaton: Victor Books, 1983), n.p.


Regards
Ken
Lead Australian Accordance Demonstrator

Administrator, Accordance Exchange

Assistant Minister, Summer Hill Church


#4 Bud Lengtat

Bud Lengtat

    Member

  • Active Members
  • Pip
  • 47 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Grass Valley, CA
  • Interests:the Bible
    my wife and kids (sons and daughters-in-law) and grandkids

    Rubik's Cubes and similar twisty puzzles

    birds and other critters, especially those that hang out at my place
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 14 July 2013 - 06:58 PM

Thank you Rick and Ken for your input. Before church today I checked out all the commentaries in the church library. The most I got was that greetings in that time were elaborate and time-consuming. Several referenced Elisha which does not really shed any more light on it. After church I asked the pastor about it and he went upstairs and brought down a commentary that was not in the library—The Expositor's Bible Commentary. Yowza! I thought that would be just the thing. Haven't I heard really good things about it at the Accordance site? But it didn't go into detail either about what was involved in these forbidden greetings. I'm just curious! Everyone keeps saying how elaborate and time-consuming they are, but none of the commentators will take the time to elaborate on the greeting. :D


When I got home I went out to the shed. My son, who recently moved to the Czech Republic to do church planting work there, did not take his MacArthur Study Bible. He packed it in a box and put it in the loft of our shed. Thanks to his hints about where to look, and thanks to God no doubt, I was able to quickly and easily locate it. MacArthur doesn't go into all the details I am looking for, but so far his answer was the most satisfying! Why do we not have his study Bible notes available in Accordance!!!


I'm curious. Maybe someone has a few minutes to look it up for me. What does the Tyndale Bible Commentary that is available in the Bible Study Collection say about Luke 10:4?

Edited by Bud Lengtat, 14 July 2013 - 07:00 PM.


#5 Bob Deacon

Bob Deacon

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 417 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Murfreesboro, North Carolina
  • Interests:Bible, computers
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:54 PM

I am certainly all for MacArthur study Bible notes as well!
  • Bud Lengtat likes this

Bob Deacon
Retired Pastor

Murfreesboro, NC


#6 Joel Brown

Joel Brown

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • 2,762 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, TX
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:29 PM

ESV Study Bible is on Accordance, by the way:

http://www.accordanc...ESV Study Bible

 

Here's the excerpt from Tyndale Commentary:

 

 

"3–4. They go to no easy task. Lambs in the midst of wolves are in no enviable situation. The simile points both to danger and to    helplessness. God’s servants are always in some sense at the mercy of the world, and in their own strength they cannot cope with the situation in which they find themselves. They must look to God. So Jesus tells them to take no equipment (cf. 9:3). The purse (ballantion, used by Luke only in the New Testament) is a money-bag. The bag (pēra) is a traveller’s bag (see on 9:3). That they are to carry no sandals probably means, not that they are to go barefoot, but that they are not to take a spare pair. They are to go as they are. Salute no one on the road is not an exhortation to impoliteness: it is a reminder that their business is urgent and that they are not to delay it by dallying with wayside acquaintances. Eastern salutations can be elaborate and time-consuming."

 

"Leon Morris, Luke: An Introduction and Commentary (TNTC 3; IVP/Accordance electronic ed. Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1988), 200-201."


Joel Brown

By day: Consultant for Oaktree
By night: Freelance Trombonist and Private Instructor

#7 Ken Simpson

Ken Simpson

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,588 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney, Australia
  • Interests:Astronomy
    Archaeology
    Physics
    Hebrew and Greek
    Papyrology
    Orthopædic Surgery
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:34 PM

here is Tyndale

 

3-4. They go to no easy task. Lambs in the midst of wolves are in no enviable situation. The simile points both to danger and to    helplessness. God’s servants are always in some sense at the mercy of the world, and in their own strength they cannot cope with the situation in which they find themselves. They must look to God. So Jesus tells them to take no equipment (cf. 9:3). The purse (ballantion, used by Luke only in the New Testament) is a money-bag. The bag (pēra) is a traveller’s bag (see on 9:3). That they are to carry no sandals probably means, not that they are to go barefoot, but that they are not to take a spare pair. They are to go as they are. Salute no one on the road is not an exhortation to impoliteness: it is a reminder that their business is urgent and that they are not to delay it by dallying with wayside acquaintances. Eastern salutations can be elaborate and time-consuming.

 

Leon Morris, Luke: An Introduction and Commentary (TNTC 3; IVP/Accordance electronic ed. Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1988), 200-201.

 

Baker Exegetical says this:

 

 

The urgency of the task is illustrated in Jesus’ command to salute no one on the way (2 Kings 4:29 [Elisha’s instruction to Gehazi]; Danker 1988: 213–14; Schweizer 1984: 175).20 Their task is important; they are not to be distracted. The spirit of the passage is similar to Luke 9:1–6, 61–62. Traveling Essenes also received help from other community members (Josephus, Jewish War 2.8.4 §§124–27).

 

Darrell L. Bock, Luke 9:51–24:53 (BECNT; Accordance electronic ed. Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 1996), 997.

 

Revised EBC

 

4 The limitations on what the Seventy-two may take with them increases their vulnerability (see comments at 9:3; also Notes, 9:3). They must also  be single-minded even to the extent of not becoming involved in time-consuming greetings (cf. 2Ki 4:29). Moreover, their lack of possessions highlights the significance of their acceptance or rejection by those to whom they will be ministering (cf. Johnson, 164).

 

Walter L. Liefeld and David W. Pao, “Luke,”  in Luke–Acts (vol. 10 of The Expositor’s Bible Commentary Revised Edition, ed. Tremper Longman III and David E. Garland; Accordance electronic ed. Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 2007), 192-193.

 

Just as a few options



Interestingly the NIV NT commentary has a little more

 

 

10:4.  These apostles are to travel light, like some other groups; cf. comment on 9:3. Essenes reportedly received such hospitality from fellow Essenes in various cities that they did not need to take provisions when they traveled. Greeting no one on the way indicates the urgency of their prophetic mission representing God and not themselves (cf. 1 Kings 13:9-10; 2 Kings 4:29; 9:3); it was offensive to withhold greetings, and pious people tried to be the first to greet an approaching person. (Jewish teachers agreed, however, that one should not interrupt religious duties like prayer in order to greet someone.)

 

Craig S. Keener, The IVP Bible Background Commentary: New Testament (Accordance electronic ed. Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1993), n.p.


Regards
Ken
Lead Australian Accordance Demonstrator

Administrator, Accordance Exchange

Assistant Minister, Summer Hill Church


#8 R. Mansfield

R. Mansfield

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,114 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kentucky
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 14 July 2013 - 09:01 PM

Word Biblical Commentary:

 

The prohibition of travel greetings is distinctive to this form of the mission charge, but probably stood in Luke’s second source at this point. O’Hagan’s suggestion (SBFLA 16 [1965–66] 69–84) that the refusal to greet is a mark of separation from the hostile environment, while it produces a plausible sense for the text, is quite insensitive to the specific Lukan context. Lang’s suggestion (BZ 26 [1982] 75–79) serves us no better: ἀσπάζειν can mean to go and pay one’s respects and in that sense to visit (cf BAGD, 116), but to suggest that what is prohibited in the Lukan text is visits to friends and family is to intrude a foreign element into the text. Imagery from Gehazi’s mission for Elisha (2 Kgs 4:29) is likely to be an influence here. As with the prohibitions of 9:3, this prohibition of greeting may serve as a deliberately staged prophetic sign of eschatological urgency. Motifs of haste and dedication come together (cf 9:60) as the messengers are sent out as harvest workers.

 

John Nolland, Luke 9:21–18:34, vol. 35B of Word Biblical Commentary. Accordance/Thomas Nelson electronic ed. (Waco: Word Books, 1993), 552.

____________________________________________________________________________________

 

New International Greek Testament Commentary:

 

In the second half of the verse a further prohibition is found, peculiar to Lk. There is no reason to ascribe it to Luke himself; it is not based on 2 Ki. 4:29 LXX, and is therefore not a Lucan Septuagintalism;κατὰ τὴν ὁδόν may, however, be a Lucan phrase (Acts 8:36; 25:3; 26:13). The view that it is from L depends on whether the surrounding sayings also come from L (Manson, Sayings, 73–78, 256f.), but this is doubtful. It is more probable that Matthew omitted the saying in his reordering of the Q material (cf. Schulz, 405). The saying forbids greeting people on the way. Oriental greetings (ἀσπάζομαι, 1:40*) were important, long and time-consuming (SB I, 380–385; H. Windisch, TDNT I, 496–502). The command to dispense with them is so unusual that it must be original (cf. Easton, 160). The reason lies in the need for urgency on the task of mission; there is an OT background in the similar command to Gehazi by Elisha (2 Ki. 4:29; Manson, Sayings, 257). The saying must be linked with the positive evaluation of greetings given in the house by the disciples (vs. 5f.). The outward formality of the greeting in the street was unimportant when the house greeting was filled with new content (Schlatter, 276f.); the omission of the normal practice would draw attention to the new element in the mission of the disciples.

 

I. Howard Marshall, The Gospel of Luke: a Commentary on the Greek Text, New International Greek Testament Commentary. Accordance electronic ed. (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1978), 418.

____________________________________________________________________________________

 

Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (found in the citation in the NIGTC above):
 
1. Jesus’ Rules of Greeting
 
For the Jews greeting is an important ceremony. This may be seen from Jesus accusation that the scribes love τοὺς ἀσπασμοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἀγοραῖς (Mk. 12:38; Mt. 23:6 f.; Lk. 20:46; 11:43). Like the seat of honour in the synagogue or at a feast, greeting in the market-place is one of the distinctions to which rabbis raise claim by reason of the dignity of their office. A greeting is given on the street when שָׁלוֹם עָלֶיךָ is first addressed to the one who is to be honoured. In their desire for a greeting, the rabbis want to be greeted first and therefore publicly recognized as superiors (cf. Alexander and the high-priest in Jos. Ant., 11, 331, →  496, n. 4). Censuring the claim of the rabbis to ἀσπασμός, Jesus does not wish his disciples to be honoured by greetings but rather to greet others. It is known that this basic principle was taught and practised by many rabbis, especially Jochanan ben Zakkai.23
 
To offer rabbis the ἀσπασμός coveted by them was the impulse of all pious Jews. Only once (Mk. 9:15) do we read that the multitude respectfully greeted Jesus: ἰδόντες αὐτὸν ἐξεθαμβήθησαν, καὶ προστρέχοντες ἠσπάζοντο αὐτόν. But there is frequent mention of προσκυνεῖν before Jesus, and this is a particularly respectful form of ἀσπασμός. The caricature of such greeting is the mocking of Jesus as the King of the Jews in Mk. 15:18 f.: καὶ ἤρξαντο ἀσπάζεσθαι αὐτόν· χαῖρε, βασιλεῦ τῶν Ἰουδαίων· . . . καὶ τιθέντες τὰ γόνατα προσεκύνουν αὐτῷ (ἀσπάζεσθαι here means to “acclaim,” →  496.
 
According to Mt. 5:47 the ἀσπάζεσθαι of brothers is also customary among the heathen; it is a natural sign of the fellowship created by kinship and friendship. Jesus desires that we should greet on the street those who are not our brothers, and even our enemies, and thus draw them into the circle of our fellowship, not recognising the enmity. In just the same way R. Jochanan ben Zakkai tried to be the first to extend greetings even to a Goy (bBer., 17a).
 
How seriously Jesus took this matter of ἀσπάζεσθαι may be seen finally from the rule which He gave His envoys in Mt. 10:12 f.; Lk. 10:5 (for the ἀσπάσασθε αὐτήν of Mt. Lk. has the more concrete πρῶτον λέγετε· εἰρήνη τῷ οἴκῳ τούτῳ). The point at issue is that of greeting on entry into a strange house.24 customary εἰρήνη σοι is the word of greeting.25 This peace is presented quite realistically as a dynamis. If the family is worthy of it, i.e., if the messenger is received accordingly (Mt.), then the power of the greeting comes on it as the Spirit comes on man,26 or blood27 or a curse to his destruction.28 Otherwise the εἰρήνη of the disciples will return to them. This part of their power of εἰρήνη will not, then, remain in the house, but will come back to the disciples for other use.29 The εἰρήνη is thus a power with which the disciples can spread blessing but the withdrawal of which has the force of a curse. The power is linked with the word and corresponding gesture.30 The greeting of apostles who are endued with ἐξουσία (Mt. 10:1) = δύναμις is thus a sacramental action.31
 
In a certain contrast to this high estimation of the greeting is the prohibition in Lk. 10:4: μηδένα κατὰ τὴν ὁδὸν ἀσπάσησθε (without par.), i.e., Do not allow yourselves to be held up on the way by time-wasting ceremonies, do not enter into conversations on the streets, but hasten to the place where you are to stay and work (anal. 2 K. 4:29). The disciples are thus forbidden to make contacts by greeting in the course of their actual journeys.32

 

TDNT, s.v. “ἀσπάζομαι ἀπασπάζομαι, ἀσπασμός,” n.p.


Edited by R. Mansfield, 14 July 2013 - 09:02 PM.

  • Bud Lengtat likes this

Rick Mansfield

Technology Evangelist

Accordance Bible Software

 


#9 Bud Lengtat

Bud Lengtat

    Member

  • Active Members
  • Pip
  • 47 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Grass Valley, CA
  • Interests:the Bible
    my wife and kids (sons and daughters-in-law) and grandkids

    Rubik's Cubes and similar twisty puzzles

    birds and other critters, especially those that hang out at my place
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 14 July 2013 - 09:20 PM

Thanks to all for taking the time to look this up and share. It looks like the TDNT wins the prize for giving the most information about the greeting. :D

#10 R. Mansfield

R. Mansfield

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,114 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kentucky
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 14 July 2013 - 09:24 PM

Interestingly, I would not have looked in the TDNT if the NIGTC had not referred to it. It shows you how important a well-referenced commentary can be.


Rick Mansfield

Technology Evangelist

Accordance Bible Software

 


#11 Bud Lengtat

Bud Lengtat

    Member

  • Active Members
  • Pip
  • 47 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Grass Valley, CA
  • Interests:the Bible
    my wife and kids (sons and daughters-in-law) and grandkids

    Rubik's Cubes and similar twisty puzzles

    birds and other critters, especially those that hang out at my place
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 14 July 2013 - 09:28 PM

Interestingly, I would not have looked in the TDNT if the NIGTC had not referred to it. It shows you how important a well-referenced commentary can be.


Now I must ask, was all of that above in Little Kittel, or only Big Kittel?

#12 R. Mansfield

R. Mansfield

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,114 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kentucky
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 14 July 2013 - 09:38 PM

That was from the Big Kittel. I just looked and the abridged version gives only this:

 

1. Jesus’ Rules of Greeting. Greetings were important for the Jews (cf. Mk. 12:18). Once (Mk. 9:15) the crowd greets Jesus himself. (More often we read of the more respectful proskyneín.) There is also a mock greeting at the trial (Mk. 15:18-19). Gentiles, too, greet their brethren as a sign of fellowship (Mt. 5:47). Jesus, however, requires his disciples to greet enemies as well as brethren. That he takes greeting very seriously is shown by his command to the disciples, when he sends them out, that they should greet a strange house on entering it, and that the peace of the greeting will either rest on the house or return to them (Mt. 10:12-13). The greeting of the apostles is thus endued with authority. On the other hand, the disciples must not let their time be wasted by casual greetings on the way (Lk. 10:4).


Rick Mansfield

Technology Evangelist

Accordance Bible Software

 





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users