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"Display Text" bug in 10.2


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#1 Randy Steffens Jr

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 05:07 PM

After accessing a verse via the "Go To" box (at the lower-right corner of the Accordance workspace), if I attempt to change to a different English Bible translation via the "Display Text" drop down menu (in the middle of the bar directly above Scripture text), Accordance leaves the place where I was reading and takes me immediately to Gen 1:1.  Thus, there is no easy way to switch between Bible translation for a text entered in the "Go To" box. 

 

This did not happen in the previous version of Accordance, where changing the "Display Text" Bible version would change the version displayed, but keep me reading in the same place.  

 

Also it seems that the "Display Text"  and "Search Text" drop down menus are now permanently linked.  I cannot change one, independently of the other.  This did not happen in the previous version of Accordance, where changing the "Display Text" Bible version would change the version displayed, but not the version searched

 

Is this a bug, or have I set something up wrong?  Thanks for any help you can provide!

Randy



#2 Ken Simpson

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 10:17 PM

It happens for me too Randy, so it's not just you!

 

I'll let the developers handle it now. But I just thought I would reassure you that it least it is happening for me too.


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#3 Joel Brown

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 12:53 AM

This was actually a deliberate change in 10.2.  We've often had a huge amount of confusion when the display text and the search text don't line up.  It leads to questions such as 'Why aren't my hits highlighted?' 'Why are verses missing?', and with the 10.2 features, 'Why can I sometimes and not always add an alternate text?'.  Generally, it doesn't make a lot of sense to try to run a search and not display the results.

 

Now, I understand how you were using it, but I want to suggest some alternatives.  First, I encourage you use Parallel Panes to accomplish comparing in other versions.  Using the 'Add Parallel' button, you can add as many extra panes as you have room for, or just add a single one and alternate it to check the verse.  Second, if you are more interested in reading than in searching, if you press Command-5 on the verse (or hit Context from the Amplify menu, toolbar, or Right-click -> Look up -> Context), it will open that verse in a special 'Text' window.  This one is easy to navigate, but skips the nature of searching and allows you to cycle through the different texts a bit easier.

 

If these options won't work for you, perhaps you could describe in a bit more detail what you are trying to do, and how you are accomplishing it?


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#4 Scott Knapp

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 12:09 PM

Given this change, I'm not sure it makes sense any longer to allow the user to switch the text module in the main pane of a text search zone.   This change can be accomplished by using the search text popup.  Why have two controls that do the same thing?  This seems even more confusing.



#5 Randy Steffens Jr

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 01:15 PM

I agree with Scott.  We also need to address the fact that the keyboard shortcuts (ctrl 1-9 and ctrl-shift 1-9) are now redundant in the search text window.  (However not with a text or context window).
 
Also, what now is the purpose of the “go-to” field?  I used to use the “go-to” field extensively for viewing verses in context, or casual reading through several chapters, while leaving the search field set to display no context and doing specific verse searches there.  Now that the main search entry field has been programmed to intelligently display single verses entered with context and multiple verses without context, the “go to” field seems superfluous.  It is particularly deflating when one enters a text in the “go to” field, and then happens to change their Bible version (via any method), and finds they are automatically taken to Gan 1:1.  This needs to be fixed, or “go to” serves limited usefulness in this respect. 
 
Also, while I see your point Joel about using panes to compare Bible versions, those of us with small screens may tend to feel a little scrunched using panes this way. I work on an 11” MacBook Air, and while I do appreciate and use panes in Bible study, I prefer doing casual reading without panes to give me more space. But as I read, I still come across an occasional word or phrase which I don’t understand. In this case, I very much value the keyboard shortcuts to quickly flip through versions and instantly compare translations with ease. I can’t do this now with any reference entered via “go-to”. I can do it with references entered via the search bar.  But it would be nice to see "go to" fixed  -- or perhaps removed if it is deemed redundant. 
 
Thanks,
Randy

 


Edited by Randy Steffens Jr, 14 July 2013 - 01:22 PM.


#6 Joel Brown

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 01:57 PM

Scott, the problem is, what is the 'main' pane? If you only have one pane, its obvious, but what if there are two?  What if you set a different pane to match the search version?  To put it simply - all panes are created equal.  :)

 

Randy,  a couple of things:

 

1.  I'm not sure that the key commands are redundant.  Control+1-9 cycles the search version, while Control+shift+1-9 cycles the selected pane version.  But, if you have a different pane selected than the one that matches the search version, it will accomplish something entirely different.

 

2. The purpose of the GoTo box is simply, to Go To a verse currently being displayed.  You can use it, for example, if you have a search with 500 hits, to jump to a particular book.  Or, if you are displaying all the text to jump to a particular verse reference without restricting a search.  Its syntax and logic are different as well, than search.  (For example, I can type 5:2 to go to chapter 5, verse 2, in the currently displayed book).  I agree that with the automatic context, navigating by GoTo isn't as vital, but it is still heavily used in other situations.

 

3. Now, what I agree with you on is that when changing search versions, we should try and retain the top verse.  So, if you have a search for all (or even a different passage), but have scrolled elsewhere, we should respect that when changing versions.  I think this tweak will help you get back to what you want.

 

4. What I'd recommend for casual reading is the 'Reading Mode'.  This is a convenient way to have distraction free reading, and maximize your screen space.  You can select it from the action menu, or by typing Control-R.  Its also pane-specific, so even if you have a couple of panes open, you can select the desired pane and read it cleanly, then just exit whenever you are done.  (Note: Apparently reading mode crashes when scrolling in 10.2.  This will be fixed for 10.2.1 very shortly).

 

I hope this helps.


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#7 Scott Knapp

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 02:18 PM

Scott, the problem is, what is the 'main' pane? If you only have one pane, its obvious, but what if there are two?  What if you set a different pane to match the search version?  To put it simply - all panes are created equal.   :)

 

 

To me the main pane is the one that changes which text module is displayed when i change the search text version in the search popup.  I guess I'll have to play with this some more to see how it acts when I have various parallel panes also being shown.



#8 Randy Steffens Jr

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 02:33 PM

Thanks Joel, yes, I think if we can retain the top verse when changing versions in a "go to" search, that will solve the biggest problem. 

 

Also: I have found that the "Display Text" and "Search Text" drop down menus are usually permanently linked, but not always!  Twice in the past 24 hrs since I downloaded Accordance, something has happened that has "unlinked" them, and I can change and search them independently!  It seemingly happens at random, and I can't for the life of me figure out how to replicate it.  But for sure, twice I've been able to search them independently.  Both times however, Accordance snaps out of this as soon as I re-set both "Display Text" and "Search Text" to the same version.

 

This has got me to thinking... I wonder if the option to display a different text than I searched could be useful in some specialized situations.  I wonder if you could bring this back as a user selectable option in "Preferences"?  Does anyone else see any usefulness to this possibility?

 

Randy


Edited by Randy Steffens Jr, 14 July 2013 - 02:58 PM.


#9 Scott Knapp

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 02:34 PM

OK.  It's trivially easy to defeat this new "feature" of 10.2.  Just add a parallel pane with a text module different than the one in the search popup.  And then delete the text pane with the module that matches the one in the search text popup.  Now you're back to pre-10.2 behavior as long as you don't switch one of the panes to the same module as is displayed in the search popup.  If you do, then that pane now becomes tied to the search popup.



#10 Randy Steffens Jr

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 02:38 PM

Ah Scott! Yes, that's what I unknowingly did twice but couldn't replicate! :)  And once the pane is set to the same version as displayed in the "search text" drop-down, "display text" and "search text" become linked again. 

 

Randy



#11 Daniel Semler

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 02:47 PM

Actually operating in such a situation is a bit confusing though. If you conduct a search with search ESVS and display set to KJVS it shows the verses but without highlighting. If you open an analysis window it claims to be of the search text which I assume it is but I haven't tested the results to prove the point. So the pane is not entirely free of the search when the two do not match. If you have multiple panes open it isn't either of course but that's presumably because its a parallel pane. Afterall there are no highlights in the parallel pane.

 

Am I right in assuming that in this case (search and display different) that when a search is done its done on what one might imagine to be an invisible pane containing the search text and then the display text shows the parallel verses as it would normally ?

 

Randy, I am not sure you really have a pane that is not searched and one that is, if my query above is on the right track. You can with separate zones but screen real estate again becomes an issue.

 

Thx

D


Edited by Daniel Semler, 14 July 2013 - 03:06 PM.

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#12 Randy Steffens Jr

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 02:57 PM

Am I right in assuming that in this case (search and display different) that when a search is done its done on what one might imagine to be an invisible pane containing the search text and then the display text shows the parallel verses as it would normally ?

Daniel, I think this is the case.  But not sure. Good points. 

 

Thanks,

Randy



#13 Joel Brown

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 03:09 PM

As Daniel said, it's very confusing and problematic to try and work without the search version being displayed. All the change was is discourage this case for users, due to its issues. There's no sense of linking or attachment as people are proposing. It's as I said before, all panes are created equally. The actual change is that if you change a display pane that matches the search text, we update the search text as well. Obviously there are ways around this if you still want the confusing setup, but the change helps reduce this misleading setup a lot.


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#14 Scott Knapp

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 03:24 PM

While I applaud and agree with the goal here, I'm not sure i agree that the current implementation has made things less confusing.  Particularly when users can easily get back into the "confused" state simply by deleting the wrong pane.



#15 Randy Steffens Jr

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 04:55 AM

Yes, this is pretty confusing until one figures out what's happening. Perhaps if the first pane is closed, the second pane which replaces it should automatically change to whatever version is being searched. 

 

Randy



#16 Daniel Semler

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:26 AM

Changes like this are always a bit tricky when you have a feature in the field. Inevitably someone was relying on the behaviour. If you permit deletion the pane which is tied to the search tab and you then automatically tied the next focussed tab, you'll have to either leave the remnant displayed verses there or reset to unsearched text. You could display a dialog when your about to delete the pane making it more obvious what's going on. I did not check the documentation but its perhaps the case that some doc change would be helpful. One of my interests in this thread arose from the fact that I was in fact unaware that you could have separate search and display tabs. I'd never used the capability though I often use multiple panes, I was never really conscious of this search/display distinction. I always treated the left most pane as special. Joel's comment above about all panes being equal was interesting. But I suspect a lot of people do and do not work this way which leaves you with a problem.

 

Another thought I had was about the case of searching without displaying text. I was wondering about a use case. One I though of was that one might really only want the analysis output for searches for comparison. In that case I could imagine comparison of different translations use of particular words for example. If that were an interesting use case, one might imagine a search box on an analysis tab. That's a bit of a paradigm shift though and would have a bunch of implications.

 

Thx

D
 


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#17 Randy Steffens Jr

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:41 PM

That's an interesting thought to contemplate Daniel, about having searches that only display analysis results.  Could have some useful implications for research.

 

Also I see your point about the problems with pane deletion and re-tying the next pane to the search results.  I think that area needs more thought...  It could still be pretty confusing to a person if they haven't realized what they've done, or how they got there. 

 

Blessings,

Randy






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