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#1 prmills

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 07:29 PM

I can no longer search in KJVS and see results in NKJVS or other version. When I change the search to KJV the results window changes to KJV (that has always been true). When I change the results window to NKJVS (or other version) the search window changes. I was able to do this independently in prior versions. It needs to go back to the way it was so that I can search in one version but show results in a separate version.



#2 Randy Steffens Jr

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 09:31 PM

I noticed this exact behavior a week ago and posted here about it.  Turns out it's not a bug, it's a new feature in 10.2.  See this thread: 

http://www.accordanc...showtopic=10191

 

I too used this feature a lot before it was abandoned, although I'm learning to get by without it. I still hope there's the possibility of bringing it back as an option in Preferences. 

 

Randy



#3 Joel Brown

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 09:51 PM

I wonder if we could simply do a nice override, like 'Shift', which means 'I know I'm changing the display pane, and I want to set up the discongruity!'...


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#4 Daniel Semler

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 10:06 PM

Hi ya,

 

  I am curious how you use this feature with just a single pane. I can see how its helpful with multiple parallel panes, in fact it seems necessary there. But I'm interested in how exactly you use it without a second pane, given that the highlights will not show up without a matching display text.

 

Thx

D


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#5 prmills

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 03:55 AM

Turns out it's not a bug, it's a new feature in 10.2.

 

Randy

 

Randy, this is not a feature it is a loss of a feature! That is NOT progress. In prior versions there was a key to change the search Bible ^. This changed both search version and results version. There was a key to change the results version cntl-shift. This changed only the results version. Now option-number and cntl-option-number do exactly the same thing. THAT IS A BUG. Why have two key combinations that do exactly the same thing? That is a bug or at least an oversight by the coders.

 

 I am curious how you use this feature with just a single pane. I can see how its helpful with multiple parallel panes, in fact it seems necessary there. But I'm interested in how exactly you use it without a second pane, given that the highlights will not show up without a matching display text.

 

 

D

 

Daniel, I grew up on the KJV. I know it's wording very well. I have memorized hundreds and hundreds of verses from KJV. I am much less familiar with other versions and cannot search for particular verses using other versions. I usually speak or teach using NKJV since this is the pew Bible in our church and I edit lessons for children that use the NKJV. I search for the text I want using the KJV, but copy from the NKJV. (I may quickly run through the list of translations using cntl-shift without needing to change the search version, since I always search using KJV). This loss of functionality adds an extra step and making it much easier for me to make an error, copying the wrong translation. I will be searching for a text and get the message it is not present do I want a flex search (etc). Step after step is added until suddenly I realize I was not searching in the KJV.

 

When I am doing a wider search and need words highlighted I will synchronize the search with the results window using the option key. Fast and easy.

 

I hope this bug is fixed.

 

 

I wonder if we could simply do a nice override, like 'Shift', which means 'I know I'm changing the display pane, and I want to set up the discongruity!'...

 

That is how it was! And that is how I think it should continue. If you can't separate the search from the results, why even label the search version? PLEASE implement your suggestion and return the program to its original function and choices!!


Edited by Phil, 22 July 2013 - 04:11 AM.


#6 prmills

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 04:02 AM

I noticed this exact behavior a week ago and posted here about it.  See this thread: 

http://www.accordanc...showtopic=10191

 

Randy

 

I went through the thread and see the same discussion. I am glad I am not the only voice pointing out the problem.



#7 Randy Steffens Jr

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 07:49 AM

Yes Joel, I like the "Shift override" idea. 

 

Randy



#8 Daniel Semler

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 10:59 AM

Hi Phil,

 

  Thanx for this. That's a second use case. I wonder about whether the new functionality ought to be the one with the more difficult path rather than altering the existing functionality at all. Of course one has to balance the predominant use versus consistency I guess.

 

Thx

D


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#9 Joel Brown

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 04:21 PM

Confirmed with the dev team, we'll add an Option-override to this.  For logic's sake, we feel this is an important step.  Even though we understand there are some situations where it can be useful to not display a pane that matches the search, it has caused huge amounts of confusion in the past.  So, starting in 10.2.1, if you are in a situation where you want to force the break, just hold the Option key when selecting your translation.

 

Out of curiosity, Phil, why not just add a NKJV pane?  Then you can see your search results, and see them in the NKJV and cycle them to compare other translations?


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#10 prmills

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 04:51 AM

Out of curiosity, Phil, why not just add a NKJV pane?  Then you can see your search results, and see them in the NKJV and cycle them to compare other translations?

 

I do when I am doing research and really digging in the Bible. However, my "bread and butter" use of the program is to quickly look up a text and paste it into Keynote or Pages for a talk I am preparing. I already know what the text says, but I may not have the exact reference. I do a KJV exact word search, but copy and paste the NKJV into my notes.I don't need to look at the KJV. I know what it says. I can keep the Accordance window small and open side by side with Pages and quickly toggle back and forth. It works very efficiently. Time is extremely important to me as I am usually pushing a deadline.

 

I am very grateful to Accordance for being so responsive. I love this program. For several years I have been trying to have the publishers of a certain book collection made available on Accordance. I have been in contact with Helen in the past. I have recently had contact with the those that can make it happen and I am hopeful that it may actually happen. Will see!



#11 Randy Steffens Jr

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 06:34 PM

Fantastic!  Thanks Joel!!

 

Randy



#12 Randy Steffens Jr

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 02:51 PM

Thanks for addressing this issue in 10.2.1!  It works much better now.  The only thing I would still like is to see the keyboard shortcut back (cntrl-shift).  Since we now use the "option" key to activate this feature, how about the keyboard shortcut: cntrl-shift-option? 

 

Randy



#13 prmills

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 04:10 AM

Joel,

 

After seeing what you mean by the option-click and using it, it doesn't help at all. It needs to be a keyboard only solution. It is not quick and easy to run through my different versions of the Bible. The option-click is not completely useless, but almost. This is very frustrating for one long-time, very loyal user. My most common use of Accordance is now lost.

 

The team has wasted two keyboard strokes making them identical (control-number functions identically with control-shift-number). And it removes a simple and important differentiation. I think you ought to revisit this!

 

Of course I can put two versions in one pain, but I try to keep the window small. Further, when I copy, I copy from the NKJV, but I do like to run through the other versions to see if it is something I like better. With two windows it is quite confusing. They sometimes change the search version and sometimes do not. You cannot simply run through independent of the search version. That needs to become consistent.

 

It was much better in the past system. It was consistent. Worked with multiple windows. Completely predictable.



#14 prmills

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 04:43 AM

Better yet, make the old method that has been around for as long as I can remember, an option in the preferences.



#15 Randy Steffens Jr

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 02:18 PM

Yes, an option in Preferences is the way to go!!  I agree that without the keyboard shortcut, functionality is much more limited. 

 

Randy



#16 Randy Steffens Jr

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 02:32 PM

I just found a big problem with the current fix.  When I'm flipping through versions in a 2-or-more-pane window using cntrl-shift, if i happen to select a version in one of the independent panes that is the same as the original search version, then the search and display versions start changing together, and can no longer be changed independently.  This happens regardless of how many panes are open, or which pane is selected.  

 

It's critical for me to be able to flip through my various versions to compare them on the fly, without messing up my search version.   This is not possible to do now, even with a 2 pane setup. 

 

It would make it so much easier if we could just have a preferences option to restore functionality as it was originally!  Please give this serious consideration!

 

Thanks,

Randy

 

 

 


Edited by Randy Steffens Jr, 28 July 2013 - 09:17 AM.


#17 RobS

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 10:03 AM

I agree with Phil and Randy.   Your advanced users need to be able to search and display verses independently, by default.  Besides, we now have two keyboard shortcuts that do the same thing!  It is totally critical to be able to flip through translations with a keyboard shortcut. That can't be done now without messing up the search version.   Please return the original, pre 10.2, functioning as soon as possible, via a simple option in preferences!! 
 
Rob


#18 Randy Steffens Jr

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 06:30 AM

Thank you so much for this fix in 10.2.3!  It functions perfectly now.  You have a very happy, very dedicated customer here. 

 

FYI, for those of you who wish to return to the previous functionality, go to Preferences > Search Tabs and uncheck the box that says "Always display search text pane".

 

Randy



#19 RobS

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 06:32 AM

I really appreciate this.  Thanks.

 

Rob



#20 prmills

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 02:34 PM

Thank you so much for this fix in 10.2.3!  It functions perfectly now.  You have a very happy, very dedicated customer here. 

 

Yes, indeed! It restores the functionality that I use continuously!

 
Thank you computer team!





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