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Greek syntax interrogative

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#1 Ken Simpson

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 07:30 AM

HI, I was thinking about the topic here and decided I'd like to try a syntax search to see if I could identify the conditionals where there is the paricle ἐὰν followed by a subjunctive verb in the same clause.

 

So I made a construct search that looked for ἐὰν followed by a subjunctive and put the two items under a CLAUSE ANY item.

 

To me that would mean that the items underneath the clause item have to be in the same clause (of any type) and that the ἐὰν must preceded the verb subjunctive as the "search both ways" button is not ticked.

 

Strangely, the first two results are not what I expected to see. In Matthew 5:20, not only does εἰσέλθητε appear to be in a different clause (the apodosis here), accordance doesn't hit the subjunctive περισσεύσῃ which is only 2 words away from  ἐὰν. That to me is clearly within the same clause.

 

The second hit, Matt 18:3, again the subjunctive that Accordance selects is again in the apodosis, while the ἐὰν is in the protasis, and it misses the 2 subjunctives in the apodosis, στραφῆτε and γένησθε.

 

Now I know it's not Accordance's fault, it's mine for not properly understanding how the syntax works, but could someone please help me work out why this is the case?


Thanks

(here is my workspace

Attached File  Workspace-1.png   229.49KB   30 downloads


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Ken
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#2 Daniel Semler

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 09:07 AM

OK so this is a bit odd. On Windows beta 6 using your search above I get περισσεύσῃ in 5:20 but my result for 18:3 is the same as yours.

I'm using GNT28-T so its probably that more than Windows that is significant here. I actually cannot get the search to run properly against GNT-T on Windows. I'll have to investigate that separately.

 

Thx

D


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#3 Daniel Semler

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 09:11 AM

Just tried it on Mac. There is definitely a change between GNT-T and GNT28-T in 5:20. But I cannot spot it in the ID.

 

Thx

D


Accordance Configurations :
 
Mac : 2009 27" iMac                 Windows : HP 4540s laptop
      Intel Core Duo                          Intel i5 Ivy Bridge
      12GB RAM                                8GB RAM
      Accordance 11.0.1                       Accordance 11.0.1
      OSX 10.9 (Mavericks)                    Win 7 Professional x64 SP1


#4 Marco V. Fabbri

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 11:56 AM

Sorry, I had missed this. I am watching the syntax topics: may I suggest to post there, for quicker feedback?

 

The reason is of this behavior is that in both Hebrew and Greek we place conjunctions outside the Clause boundary. In other words, they are not part of the Clause itself.

 

As for subordinate Clauses, the subordinating conjunction will be an Adjunct or a Complement that will introduce a Clause.

 

As for ἐάν, it will be an Adjunct to a Predicate.


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#5 Robert Holmstedt

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 05:55 PM

For the Hebrew modules, I need to nuance Marco's statement a bit. We do include conjunctions inside the outermost clause boundary. Thus, if you were looking for a conditional clause followed by an imperfect verb, you would look for Clause (Dependent) with the first item אם and then an imperfect verb. Since there may also be a waw ו conjunction before the אם, it would also be wise to search for אם as the 2nd item. 

 

I've put a snapshot below.

 

Attached File  Screen Shot 2013-08-21 at 6.51.25 PM.png   523.25KB   32 downloads


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#6 Marco V. Fabbri

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 07:18 AM

I apologize, I now see that this was topic is already included in the Syntax Modules forum.


Marco Valerio Fabbri
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#7 Helen Brown

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 08:54 AM

That's because I moved it here.


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