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#1 Niko

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 03:41 AM

Hi,

 

 

HALOT tells me, that the word for wind and spirit, ruach, is sometimes masculine, like in Ex 10:13, where the following verb is masculine. Accordance BHS tags this masculine.

 

When I select ruach from the 'Enter Lexical Forms' and then select 'noun, masculine', the search does not find it.

 

What am I doing wrong?

 

Thanks!

 

 



#2 Lorinda H. M. Hoover

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:46 AM

Which text are you searching?  My BHS-T tags ruach as feminine in Exodus 10:13.


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#3 James Tucker

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 08:51 AM

N.B.; 2° is tagged as Masc.



#4 Lorinda H. M. Hoover

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 09:29 AM

:unsure: Oops!  I should have looked more closely!  So it is. 

 

I tried the search "=רוּחַ@ [NOUN masculine]" (entered from the menus, and in a different order in Accordance) and am told there are no such verses.


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#5 Gordon

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:14 AM

Generally רוּח is fem.; only seldom is it masc., as in Ex 10. Nu 11 Is 57 Jr 4 Ezk 27 Ps 51 78 Jb 4 8 20 41 Qoh 1 3; discussed by Albrecht ZAW 16 (1896) 42- 44 and Michel Grundlegung 1:76:not able to find a reason for this shift in gender. (HALOT)


‏ כִּ֤י לֶ֣קַח ט֭וֹב נָתַ֣תִּי לָכֶ֑ם תּֽ֝וֹרָתִ֗י אַֽל־תַּעֲזֹֽבוּ׃


#6 Niko

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:21 AM

Thanks for all the replies! Yes, this exactly lead me to ask if the noun is tagged as masc. why can't I find it? 



#7 Harold Hosch

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:28 AM

The gender of the word ruach in the Hebrew Bible is generally classified as "both". But gender is determined only when ruach is subject (agent) at which time the gender is identified in the verb. In such cases it is represented most frequently as feminine, but masculine is also identified frequently enough. There is a case in Ezekiel in which two ruach clauses appear one following the other in which ruach is the agent of coming upon Ezekiel, and there the verb is feminine, but in the following clause where the pronoun for ruach is used the verb 'to speak' is masculine—"he spoke" (see Ezek. 11:5). 



#8 JonathanHuber

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:34 AM

If I search the HMT-W4 for רוּחַ and look at the search details, it does identify 15/378 hits as being masculine. Someone else will have to explain why they aren't showing up in your search.


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#9 James Tucker

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:48 AM

Yes, Jonathan you are correct. I tried several searches, using different syntax each time. I thought that perhaps [ANY masc] would capture it, by delimiting it with "@" and lemma, but no luck. A bug has found home, I believe.



#10 Ken Simpson

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 08:29 PM

this still does not work properly in 10.4.3.2

 

=רוּחַ@ [NOUN masculine] 

 
does not find Ex 10:13
 
is doesn't seem to be a tagging issue as the ID shows the second occurrence of ruach as masculine in the verse.

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#11 Helen Brown

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 11:35 PM

Definitely a bug here. Accordance finds both instances of רוּחַ in the verse, as long as I don't add any qualifying tag. We'll look into it. In any case I think the tagging is erroneous, why distinguish the two instances when they refer to the same wind?

 

When analyzing a search for  =רוּחַ
I get

 

       (רוח)    רוּחַ    spirit, breath, wind = 378
                    Masculine = 15
                    Feminine = 363
 

So some cases do have a masculine tag or alternate tag, but we cannot find them!


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#12 Ken Simpson

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 11:52 PM

Hi Helen, I think רוּחַ has been given the masculine tag because הָיָ֔ה is a masculine verb and the likeliest contender for the subject of the verb is רוּחַ. Just my thoughts on the verse anyway.

 

Plus that is how it is identified in HALOT (as Gordon points out).

 

"...only seldom is it masc., as in Ex 10:13,19, Nu 11:31 Is 57:16 Jr 4:12 Ezk 27:26 Ps 51:12, 78:39 Jb 4:15, 8:2, 20:3, 41:8 Qoh 1:6, 3:19;"

“רוּחַ,” HALOT, 3:1197.


Edited by Ken Simpson, 10 August 2014 - 12:11 AM.

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#13 Helen Brown

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 01:31 AM

We have looked at this, and these tag codes include an exclamation point which interrupts the parsing of the tag, and is preventing the search from finding them. We'll work with the Groves Center on this one.


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