Jump to content


Photo

Cantilation Again


  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1 Gordon

Gordon

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 304 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 12 March 2014 - 06:07 AM

Ok...so how do I search for more than one cantilation mark?  let's say:  darga tevir?


‏ כִּ֤י לֶ֣קַח ט֭וֹב נָתַ֣תִּי לָכֶ֑ם תּֽ֝וֹרָתִ֗י אַֽל־תַּעֲזֹֽבוּ׃


#2 Gordon

Gordon

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 304 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 12 March 2014 - 06:28 AM

ok...I found the answer...

 

(period, cantilation mark)  <AND > (period,cantilation mark)

 

each cantilation search must be in  parenthesis


‏ כִּ֤י לֶ֣קַח ט֭וֹב נָתַ֣תִּי לָכֶ֑ם תּֽ֝וֹרָתִ֗י אַֽל־תַּעֲזֹֽבוּ׃


#3 bkMitchell

bkMitchell

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 249 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Japan
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 12 March 2014 - 06:33 AM

Good thinking!

You have found one of the ways that Accordance can search on more than one cantilation mark at a time.

There, however, is another way of going about this; the construct window plus the character pallette.

See, the attachments below:

 

(1)First open a Hebrew text,

(2)and then a 'linked' Construct window

(3)Drag the character boxes into each of the colomns

(4)Select a one of the character boxes and then open the Attached File  Characters.png   24.16KB   0 downloads and select whatever cantillation mark you wish to search on. Do, this for the other box or boxes.

 

(5) Your constuct search should look something like this:

Attached File  Darga and Tebir.png   27.56KB   0 downloads

 

(6) And your results may look like this:

Attached File  Darga and Tebir search.png   482.45KB   0 downloads


Edited by bkMitchell, 12 March 2014 - 06:50 AM.

חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

 

 


#4 Gordon

Gordon

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 304 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 12 March 2014 - 06:50 AM

ok...but my search showed 6752 hits!

it also included Gen 1:12  ; Gen 1:22  and many others when the darga tevir may be separted by a prefix in the tevir word or even a hypenated tevir word

and these did not show in your screenshot


‏ כִּ֤י לֶ֣קַח ט֭וֹב נָתַ֣תִּי לָכֶ֑ם תּֽ֝וֹרָתִ֗י אַֽל־תַּעֲזֹֽבוּ׃


#5 Gordon

Gordon

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 304 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 12 March 2014 - 06:55 AM

And also when the tevir may be separated by a number of words from the darga and also when there is more than one tevir...


‏ כִּ֤י לֶ֣קַח ט֭וֹב נָתַ֣תִּי לָכֶ֑ם תּֽ֝וֹרָתִ֗י אַֽל־תַּעֲזֹֽבוּ׃


#6 bkMitchell

bkMitchell

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 249 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Japan
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:57 AM

ok...but my search showed 6752 hits!

it also included Gen 1:12  ; Gen 1:22  and many others when the darga tevir may be separted by a prefix in the tevir word or even a hypenated tevir word

and these did not show in your screenshot

I am sorry I sould have been more clear about what I did.

Basically, I used the "within" box and limited my quiery to cases where the accents appear on consecutive words. If, I removed that box, or if I changed the limits then I would have picked up even more results/hits.

 

When, I remove the 'within' box I get 3478 hits.

Then, if I selected the "seach both directions" box I get 3484 hits. That is still less than your 6752.

This is very interesting...


Edited by bkMitchell, 12 March 2014 - 07:58 AM.

חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

 

 


#7 Gordon

Gordon

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 304 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:06 AM

Did you try the way I did my search?  What were your results?


‏ כִּ֤י לֶ֣קַח ט֭וֹב נָתַ֣תִּי לָכֶ֑ם תּֽ֝וֹרָתִ֗י אַֽל־תַּעֲזֹֽבוּ׃


#8 bkMitchell

bkMitchell

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 249 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Japan
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:09 PM

When, I tried your quiery it yeilded the same number hits that you recieved earlier and your rational for that is spot on (rather than the AND command I used the FOLLOWED BY command, but both commands seem to yeild the about the same results). However, construct searches can catch other hits if one adds another 'character box' with a 'tebir' to the search. Then the construct search finds 389 hits (392 hits /both directions) where Darga is followed by Tebir and another Tebir follows it anywhere in a verse (be that one word, two words, or more from the initial Darga/Tebir).

 

 

Now, back to the command line or the Search Enter area: If I remove the brackets and the command and then run the search I get 891 hits where Darga is directly followed by Tebir (without another Tebir following it).

 

 


חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

 

 


#9 James Tucker

James Tucker

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 644 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:05 PM

It's always helpful to bare in mind the corpus limitations of what designates your search arguments as true or not. This contextually adjudicates the value of AND/OR/XOR and the likes. In other words, every search in Accordance is an argument passed over a database, the corpus. When you place a limitation of the corpus (sentence, clause, chapter, book) you are defining the truth value (whether you get hits) on your search. Thus, a search for "word X AND word Y" says these two arguments must return true, but you can decide what predicates the truth value of the result by delimiting your corpus (book, chapter, sentence, clause, phrase, word). Hence we can then postulate, "word X AND word Y" is true meaning both conditions must occur within the same verse, same phrase, same clause, same sentence, same chapter. To delimit two arguments to same word, you have change your thinking on what adjudicates the truth value to a word. In the case of cantillation, "sigla X AND sigla Y" says only these must be within the subset of the corpus; to place those arguments on the same word you could use the WITHIN 1-1 specification, in which case it says two cantillation marks must occur on the same word. Accordance used to accept something like the following (but is rejecting the search argument in 10.4, which doesn't make sense why it does so): *@"=*.[cantillation]*"@"=*.[cantillation]*"


  • bkMitchell likes this




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users