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Learn to Read NT Greek


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#1 Nathan Parker

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 09:09 PM

Here's the textbook I'll be using when I take my Greek classes. If Accordance will eventually release it in Accordance format, that'd be nice.

 

http://www.amazon.co...g=UTF8&sr=&qid=

 

I can pick it up in print for now, but having it searchable in Accordance format would be more fun.

 

We're not using Mounce for the textbook, but I may pick up his and give it a read anyway just for the additional learning. Wouldn't hurt.

 

By the way, my professor I'll be taking Greek from is a huge Accordance fan. Glad I jumped in before taking his classes! It'll make things go more smoothly.

 

Thanks!


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#2 jhancock61

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 10:39 PM

Hey Nathan, are you taking your class in an online environment or face to face? Just curious if it might be an online class. I am looking to start learning Greek myself and am evaluating different sources and methods. I don't have a local college or seminary that I am aware of to take a class face to face at the present time. I have looked in depth at the Mounce System and I did come across the David Black book also. There does not seem to be as much info readily available evaluating the David Black book. Does he has a system of study similar to the Mounce system? Good luck with your studies!

 

Thanks!

Jeff



#3 James Tucker

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 11:54 AM

Black's book would not be as suited for a self-learner. There is a very practical component to Black's book, in that it is divided into 26 chapters. Makes it very easy to spread out over the course of two 13 week semesters.

 

Let me reassure you, that learning any language is exposure. Ask any person who has self-taught themselves another language, and nearly every response you get is that the person utilized music.

 

I taught myself Greek grammar in a summer before I majored in Greek in my Undergraduate. Even the program I was in had a relatively fast paced approach when it comes to grammar. The entire grammar is covered in one semester, but the first two semesters are 5 credit hours, not three. The point is that the program also understood the importance of reading.

 

For what its worth, If I were wanting to study Greek on my own, I would use Randall Buth's material. Perhaps also Christophe Rico's material, if you can read French or Italian. I would keep a grammar around for answering your questions and to complement the analytical component.



#4 Daniel Semler

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 12:16 PM

Hi James,

 

  Your comments on language learning are always interesting to me, so I have a couple of questions if I may.

 

  You mention that :

 

 

Ask any person who has self-taught themselves another language, and nearly every response you get is that the person utilized music.

 

I've been working through teaching myself, from books, videos etc, and have not used music. Currently I am working to develop and increase fluency. It could be argued that I've not progressed especially far, (or that given my lack of musical facility that music would be a hindrance :) ) so I'm wondering how people use it in your experience ? Do you mean listening to songs in the language for example ? If so do have any recommendations or would any modern music with Greek lyrics assist in tuning the ear, so to speak, in your opinion ?

 

 

The point is that the program also understood the importance of reading.

 

Here do you mean reading to oneself or out loud or ....

 

On this point I will say that I reached a point where it became clear to me that I was reading too much grammar and too little Greek; that it would be better to read "incorrectly" (from the point of view of grammatical understanding) so that one became better acquainted with the language itself and got the gist rather than obsessing over fine details of grammar and reading almost nothing in Greek itself.

 

Thx

D


Accordance Configurations :
 
Mac : 2009 27" iMac                 Windows : HP 4540s laptop
      Intel Core Duo                          Intel i5 Ivy Bridge
      12GB RAM                                8GB RAM
      Accordance 11.0.1                       Accordance 11.0.1
      OSX 10.9 (Mavericks)                    Win 7 Professional x64 SP1


#5 James Tucker

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 01:58 PM

Daniel, 

 

Thanks for the note.

 

Regarding 1, when I speak with people who have learned another language—and point to music as being the catalyst or aid in helping them achieve fluency—my impression is that it relates to memorability and comprehension. Exposure in terms of audible sounds increases ones ability to distinguish and interpret sounds (phonology). There are several academic articles I could point you that take up phonology and second language acquisition; because of my interest in languages (and my envy of those who live in Europe where its near ubiquitous to have language skills beyond one's mother tongue), I am normally keen to ask folks how the acquired second languages.

 

I should also mention that one's personal goals of language learning should inform to what extent what one focuses. If one is only seeking to gain proficiency in using 'tools,' then I am quite OK by saying that one doesn't need to spend much time hearing the language spoken, inflected, used by its speakers. For Koine Greek, I don't know of anyone producing music in this dialect. Even Buth and Rico's materials are problematic to some degree in this area, because of the potential to be spurious. Language form can only inform to a certain degree, for it's people who use language, not language who use people. I would take language as cognitive expressions—and I would even say we judge intelligence on those factors (but now I am going quite far and would require much more detailed argumentation to get my point across).

 

 

Your second point, related to the first, is very important. I recommend reading aloud. it builds your sensitivity to the texture of the text—and leads to asking differing questions. For example, I had read this verse several times silently, but when I read it aloud, I quickly noticed the alliteration used by Paul to accentuate his message:

 

Βλέπετε τοὺς κύνας, βλέπετε τοὺς κακοὺς ἐργάτας, βλέπετε τὴν κατατομήν.

 

When read aloud, you can easily see Paul's alliteration along the lines of using the labial, interdental, velar, three times consecutively.

 

read aloud and read pensively—paying attention to the texture of text. 


Edited by James Tucker, 16 April 2014 - 02:01 PM.


#6 James Tucker

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 02:15 PM

Ah, and one more thing regarding your comment about feeling stagnant (or in your words 'progressed very far'). How often do you try to compose something in Greek?

 

What fine tuned differences are at work when you can, on the one hand, use an articular infinitive construction (εν τω -) to indicate a temporal expression, yet on the other hand do so with a genitive absolute? Is it a matter of style, or is there a fine tuned difference in nuance between these two types of syntactical constructions? These are the sort of questions I started to ask when I transitioned my brain from recognition to production. I used North and Hillard's Classical Compositions, and you can freely download them here: http://www.textkit.c...1/author_id/11/

 

Or for a fun time, and remove the social apprehensions of committing solecisms (you did a lot when you were a kid learning your mother tongue), try out σχολη. http://sxole.com

 

Enjoy, 

jt



#7 Daniel Semler

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 03:23 PM

Actually I don't think I'm stagnating (yet) per se, but progress is slower than I'd like.

 

I'm working through a reader right now which requires reading each passage out loud to oneself, and I do that regularly, but whether my pronunciation is any good has never been tested in any form of communication.

 

But regarding composition, I don't ever do it, but I'm convinced that it would seriously help. So I've been looking around for options in this area. I've seen the Textkit stuff but have yet to play with it. I'll download this and take a look.

 

The other things I'm considering are a reading group, or online class with spoken and written components, and picking up Classical Greek. The reason for the last is to broaden the perspective and to handle a few aspects of the Koine which I've run across which would be better understood with that background.

 

Thanx for the thoughts and suggestions

D


Accordance Configurations :
 
Mac : 2009 27" iMac                 Windows : HP 4540s laptop
      Intel Core Duo                          Intel i5 Ivy Bridge
      12GB RAM                                8GB RAM
      Accordance 11.0.1                       Accordance 11.0.1
      OSX 10.9 (Mavericks)                    Win 7 Professional x64 SP1


#8 Nathan Parker

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 07:30 PM

Great discussion so far! To answer your question, I'll be taking my Greek classes online at Luther Rice Seminary as part of my M Div in Biblical Languages training. In the meantime, I am reading introductory books on Greek, watching videos, webinars, etc., as well. None of that will teach me as good as seminary, but at least I'll be a little more comfortable with it when I jump into my seminary courses.


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#9 Daniel Semler

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 03:21 PM

Trawling around looking for stuff I found this : http://www.akwn.net/. This is a site in Attic Greek - mostly, some English - presenting contemporary news translated into Attic. Very interesting, done by a guy at Oxford. If you are looking for additional material, in particular to practice discerning meaning from context, this is cool.

 

Thx

D


Accordance Configurations :
 
Mac : 2009 27" iMac                 Windows : HP 4540s laptop
      Intel Core Duo                          Intel i5 Ivy Bridge
      12GB RAM                                8GB RAM
      Accordance 11.0.1                       Accordance 11.0.1
      OSX 10.9 (Mavericks)                    Win 7 Professional x64 SP1


#10 Nathan Parker

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 03:02 PM

Sounds good. I'll check it out. Thanks!


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#11 Daniel Semler

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 06:34 PM

I thought I would return to this thread with a followup note on Buth. Buth produces (or his institute in Israel http://www.biblicallanguagecenter.com/) produces material aimed at learning Greek and Hebrew. His approach is based on understanding of how people pick up languages as children. I've been working my way through his Greek intro and it's very interesting. The video material is drawings of things and his voice speaking the Greek describing the picture. There's no English. He progresses from very simple things - just a word, to much more complicated things. What I've noticed is that words that I have learned using Buth's material have a more immediate visual recall - I see the image of the thing. Words I learn through grammar and flashcard reading and so on I translate more often than not - that declines as I see the word more often and begin to internalize it more and more.

 

His pronunciation is not Erasmian though and that may cause issues for some learners or use in some environments. For me its fine.

 

Anyhow, thought I would pass this along, for whatever it may be worth.

 

Thx

D


  • Abram K-J likes this

Accordance Configurations :
 
Mac : 2009 27" iMac                 Windows : HP 4540s laptop
      Intel Core Duo                          Intel i5 Ivy Bridge
      12GB RAM                                8GB RAM
      Accordance 11.0.1                       Accordance 11.0.1
      OSX 10.9 (Mavericks)                    Win 7 Professional x64 SP1


#12 Nathan Parker

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 05:55 PM

Sounds good! I'll check it out. I also was able to pickup the above textbook in Logos format, although now I have to run two Bible programs at once. :-)


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Mallard Computer, Inc.





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