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Search string vs. Construct search, same search (?), different results


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#1 Abram K-J

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 04:28 PM

Not to take the original thread off-topic, I wanted to post again here.

 

Is there a reason why my search in the top left zone and my linked construct search in the bottom left zone are returning different results? Aren't the queries (whether text or construct) phrased identically? Or am I missing something?

 

Attached File  Screenshot 2014-05-22 17.11.30.png   530.4KB   0 downloads


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#2 Abram K-J

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 04:39 PM

P.S. Just checked the "Search both directions" box in the Greek Construct. Two searches are closer now, but only the text search

 

θεος <WITHIN 2 Words> [VERB] <WITHIN 2 Words> κοσμος

 

picks up two instances where the three search items appear in the order of [VERB] θεος κοσμος, whereas the Construct search picks up the order

 

θεος  [VERB]  κοσμος 

 

or

 

κοσμος  [VERB]  θεος

 

but not 

 

[VERB] θεος κοσμος


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#3 Helen Brown

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 04:56 AM

The reason is that the Construct search is always precise, it always finds the words in the order you specify, or the complete reverse order if you check the box. It is as if it had an implied <FOLLOWED BY> between each column. In your search tab each <WITHIN> looks in both directions, and in this case could be very imprecise depending on how the search string is executed. It's possible that it is using the <WITHIN> between the first and last terms as well.


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#4 Abram K-J

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 06:26 AM

Thanks, Helen--that makes sense. So maybe I was reading the Help files right after all--"WITHIN" in a Construct Search is really "FOLLOWED BY" and therefore not the same as "WITHIN" in a search tab?


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#5 Helen Brown

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 12:11 PM

Not exactly, the Construct is always "FOLLOWED BY" whether or not you limit the "WITHIN."


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#6 Abram K-J

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 09:29 PM

Okay--so if I was trying to get my two searches to match (i.e., if the results of my search tab query got me closer to what I was looking for), would there be a way to use the Construct search to set up the same thing as what I had in my search tab? (i.e., θεος <WITHIN 2 Words> [VERB] <WITHIN 2 Words> κοσμος)

 

...but also wanting the order [VERB] θεος κοσμος to be able to appear in the results.

 

Or is this just an instance (I suspect so) where using both methods of searching is helpful?


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#7 Daniel Semler

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 10:01 PM

Hey Abram,

 

  θεος <WITHIN 2 Words> <FOLLOWED BY> [VERB] <WITHIN 2 Words> <FOLLOWED BY> κοσμος

 

  and this :

 

Attached File  AbramConsvsSearch.JPG   38.85KB   0 downloads

 

  That gets the two to match though hit counting between the two methods differs.

 

  Then to get the additional piece you can set up another construct and then alter the tab to present results for both. So set up this additional construct

 

Attached File  AbramConsvsSearch2.JPG   32.82KB   0 downloads

 

  and change your search tab to : [link Greek Construct] <OR>  [link Greek Construct 2]

 

  Does that help ?

 

Thx

D


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#8 Abram K-J

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 10:04 PM

Ah, yes--I didn't think of doing an "OR" search with two constructs. Good idea for a workaround... and does what I'm asking about.

 

It would probably mess with the Construct too much to do this in a future update (?) but I could envision scenarios (especially in Greek and Hebrew where verb/subject/object order vary) where having the elements not have to sequentially follow each other could be beneficial. But with just three items, what you're describing, Daniel, seems to work just fine. Thanks!


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#9 Daniel Semler

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 10:44 PM

Well you can also do this if you know which verbs you want :

 

Attached File  AbramConsvsSearch3.JPG   53.08KB   0 downloads

 

What I think you want is to be able to OR within a column and stack VERB, and LEX in the on column. That is not how it operates now but I suspect such a thing could be added. Easy for me to say of course, just mangling the search engine from afar :)

 

Thx

D


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#10 Daniel Semler

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 11:06 PM

Ok I'll stop now but one last thought. You can put different parts of speech in the same column as alternatives - something I just learnt now. Now if you could attach a LEX restriction to each individually that would do it. Rather like this search below though it does not work currently:

 

Attached File  AbramConsvsSearch4.JPG   51.17KB   0 downloads

 

Thx

D


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