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John Butler or John Phillips? Which would you pick?

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#1 eshane7

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 12:34 PM

Ok, I really like John Phillips commentaries.  What I have read of his has always been good.  I recently watched the video that was sent out in the email about the John Butler's commentaries.  His look really good too!  I like alliteration and even use alliteration quite a bit.  My questions is, if you could only get one, which would you pick?  Why?  I have to decide one or the other.  Thanks for any information that you can give on this.  It will be appreciated.

 

 

 

PS - I would love to see Butler's outline of the book of Hosea, just the major points to compare with Phillips hardback book I have in hand. 



#2 Rick Bennett

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 01:44 PM

Butler is complete for the whole Bible; Phillips skips from Genesis to Psalms.

 

It looks like in Hosea that he only outlines each chapter. Here's chapter 1 if it helps:

 

 

THE OUTLINE (Main Points) OF THE CHAPTER:

A. The Period of the Prophet (Hosea 1:1)

B. The Precept for the Prophet (Hosea 1:2)

C. The Portrayal by the Prophet (Hosea 1:3–9)

D. The Promise of the Prophet (Hosea 1:10, 11)


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#3 eshane7

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 02:22 PM

Rick,

 

Thank you for pointing that out!  I didn't realize that Exodus-Job had been skipped!  That is a rather large junk to be missing, I can't believe I overlooked that.  Thank you for the preview of the outline as well.  



#4 Rick Bennett

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 02:29 PM

Rick,

 

Thank you for pointing that out!  I didn't realize that Exodus-Job had been skipped!  That is a rather large junk to be missing, I can't believe I overlooked that.  Thank you for the preview of the outline as well.  

 

No problem. I don't think the content is missing so much as it is just incomplete (not uncommon in commentaries).


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#5 eshane7

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 11:33 AM

 

No problem. I don't think the content is missing so much as it is just incomplete (not uncommon in commentaries).

Thanks for the clarification.  You are right, it is not missing, just that the author never wrote it.  

 

On a second note.  What are the chances that Accordance would ever have individual books available for sale from a commentary set?  So that perhaps a user could buy the minor prophets by Phillips and or Butler to decide if they like the author.  This could be very beneficial to users to add books as they need/want them.  Kind of like an inconsistent payment plan, as need and money allow.  



#6 Rick Bennett

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 12:02 PM

Thanks for the clarification.  You are right, it is not missing, just that the author never wrote it.  

 

On a second note.  What are the chances that Accordance would ever have individual books available for sale from a commentary set?  So that perhaps a user could buy the minor prophets by Phillips and or Butler to decide if they like the author.  This could be very beneficial to users to add books as they need/want them.  Kind of like an inconsistent payment plan, as need and money allow.  

 

We occasionally do that for larger sets, but Phillips is already pretty small, and both it and Butler are under $200. I'm not saying $200 is an insignificant investment, but just that we typically break up larger sets. And even when we do that, sales are typically not that high, and it involves extra work to setup and maintain.


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#7 BibleMan

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 02:29 PM

I don't know if this is helpful but under Accordance I opened Butler on Hosea and in the reference area just typed in Hosea and then showed text as paragraph and copied out the outline.  Here is the results.

 

WOW!

 

HOSEA - Outline from Butler
 
A. The Period of the Prophet
 
Hosea 1:1
1. The Dignities of the Period (Hosea 1:1)
2. The Decline in the Period (Hosea 1:1)
B. The Precept for the Prophet
 
Hosea 1:2
1. The Source of the Precept (Hosea 1:2)
2. The Specifics of the Precept (Hosea 1:2)
3. The Submission to the Precept (Hosea 1:3)
C. The Portrayal by the Prophet
 
Hosea 1:3–9
1. The Retribution from God (Hosea 1:3–5)
2. The Repulsion of God (Hosea 1:6, 7)
3. The Rejection of God (Hosea 1:8, 9)
D. The Promise of the Prophet
 
Hosea 1:10, 11
1. The Crowd in the Promise (Hosea 1:10)
2. The Compassion in the Promise (Hosea 1:10)
3. The Confederation in the Promise (Hosea 1:11)
 
HOSEA 2
 
A. The Report of Gomer
 
Hosea 2:1–5
1. The Charge (Hosea 2:1, 2)
2. The Condemnation (Hosea 2:3)
3. The Curse (Hosea 2:4, 5)
B. The Results of Guile
 
Hosea 2:6–13
1. The Dissatisfaction in the Results (Hosea 2:6, 7)
2. The Delinquency in the Results (Hosea 2:7)
3. The Dumbness in the Results (Hosea 2:8)
4. The Deviation in the Results (Hosea 2:9)
5. The Departure in the Results (Hosea 2:10)
6. The Disgrace in the Results (Hosea 2:10)
7. The Doom (Hosea 2:11–13)
C. The Restoration by God
 
Hosea 2:14–23
1. The Attraction for God (Hosea 2:14, 15)
2. The Affection for God (Hosea 2:16)
3. The Abolishing for God (Hosea 2:17)
4. The Alliance With God (Hosea 2:18–20)
5. The Awards From God (Hosea 2:21–23)
 
HOSEA 3
 
A. The Command for Hosea
 
Hosea 3:1–3
1. The Love in the Command (Hosea 3:1)
2. The Lucre in the Command (Hosea 3:2)
3. The Law in the Command (Hosea 3:3)
B. The Comparison to Israel
 
Hosea 3:4, 5
1. The Rulers in the Comparison (Hosea 3:4)
2. The Religion in the Comparison (Hosea 3:4)
3. The Return in the Comparison (Hosea 3:5)
 
HOSEA 4
 
A. The Call About Sin
 
Hosea 4:1
1. The Mandate in the Call (Hosea 4:1)
2. The Message in the Call (Hosea 4:1)
3. The Multitude in the Call (Hosea 4:1)
B. The Catalogue of Sin
 
Hosea 4:1, 2, 6–9, 12, 14, 16–18
1. Deceit (Hosea 4:1, 2)
2. Degenerate (Hosea 4:1)
3. Dumbness (Hosea 4:2, 6, 14)
4. Death (Hosea 4:2)
5. Defilement (Hosea 4:2, 13, 18)
6. Decline (Hosea 4:16)
7. Deities (Hosea 4:12, 13, 17)
8. Dedication (Hosea 4:7, 8)
C. The Consequences of Sin
 
Hosea 4:3–10, 13, 14, 19
1. Despondency (Hosea 4:3)
2. Defeat (Hosea 4:5)
3. Disgrace (Hosea 4:7, 18, 19)
4. Dissatisfaction (Hosea 4:10)
5. Dispassionate (Hosea 4:11)
6. Doom (Hosea 4:9)
7. Departure (Hosea 4:4, 14)
D. The Command About Sin
 
Hosea 4:15
1. A Steadfastness Command (Hosea 4:15)
2. A Separation Command (Hosea 4:15)
3. A Sacred Command (Hosea 4:15)
 
HOSEA 5
 
A. The Culprits in the Sin
 
Hosea 5:1, 10
1. The Priests (Hosea 5:1)
2. The Princes (Hosea 5:10)
3. The People (Hosea 5:1)
B. The Conduct of the Sin
 
Hosea 5:1–5, 7, 10, 11, 13
1. The Deceit in the Sin (Hosea 5:1)
2. The Death in the Sin (Hosea 5:2)
3. The Defiance in the Sin (Hosea 5:2)
4. The Defilement in the Sin (Hosea 5:3)
5. The Doctrine in the Sin (Hosea 5:4)
6. The Dumbness in the Sin (Hosea 5:4)
7. The Disdain in the sin (Hosea 5:5)
8. The Dedication in the Sin (Hosea 5:11)
9. The Distrust in the Sin (Hosea 5:13)
C. The Cognizance of the Sin
 
Hosea 5:3, 8, 9
1. The Perception in the Cognizance (Hosea 5:3)
2. The Precaution in the Cognizance (Hosea 5:8)
3. The Prediction in the Cognizance (Hosea 5:9)
D. The Consequences of the Sin
 
Hosea 5:5–8, 10–12, 14, 15
1. The Defeat in the Consequences (Hosea 5:5)
2. The Departure in the Consequences (Hosea 5:6)
3. The Dispatch of the Consequences (Hosea 5:7)
4. The Desolation in the Consequences (Hosea 5:9)
5. The Displeasure in the Consequences (Hosea 5:10)
6. The Downtrodden in the Consequences (Hosea 5:11)
7. The Destruction in the Consequences (Hosea 5:11, 14)
8. The Deterioration in the Consequences (Hosea 5:12)
9. The Devotion in the Consequences (Hosea 5:15)
 
HOSEA 6
 
A. The Invitation for Repentance
 
Hosea 6:1–3
1. The Pity in the Invitation (Hosea 6:1)
2. The Precept in the Invitation (Hosea 6:1)
3. The Promise in the Invitation (Hosea 6:1–3)
4. The Principle in the Invitation (Hosea 6:3)
B. The Inquiry About Judgment
 
Hosea 6:4, 5, 11
1. The Prompting of the Inquiry (Hosea 6:4)
2. The Punishment in the Inquiry (Hosea 6:5, 11)
C. The Iniquity of Israel
 
Hosea 6:6–11
1. The Display (Hosea 6:6)
2. The Deceit (Hosea 6:7)
3. The Deadliness (Hosea 6:8, 9)
4. The Defilement (Hosea 6:9)
5. The Doctrine (Hosea 6:10)
 
HOSEA 7
 
A. The Conduct for the Judgment
 
Hosea 7:1–8, 10, 11, 14–16
1. The Disease Sin (Hosea 7:1)
2. The Deceit Sin (Hosea 7:1, 16)
3. The Deliberation Sin (Hosea 7:2)
4. The Delight Sin (Hosea 7:3)
5. The Defilement Sin (Hosea 7:4)
6. The Drink Sin (Hosea 7:5)
7. The Desire Sin (Hosea 7:6, 7)
8. The Divider Sin (Hosea 7:8)
9. The Disdain Sin (Hosea 7:10)
10. The Distrust Sin (Hosea 7:11)
11. The Devotion Sin (Hosea 7:14)
12. The Disbelief Sin (Hosea 7:14)
13. The Defiance Sin (Hosea 7:14)
14. The Dishonor Sin (Hosea 7:15)
B. The Character of the Judgment
 
Hosea 7:1, 9, 12, 13, 16
1. The Catching in the Judgment (Hosea 7:12)
2. The Chastening in the Judgment (Hosea 7:12)
3. The Condemning in the Judgment (Hosea 7:13)
4. The Crushing in the Judgment (Hosea 7:13)
5. The Consuming in the Judgment (Hosea 7:1, 9)
6. The Comprehension in the Judgment (Hosea 7:9)
7. The Cruelty in the Judgment (Hosea 7:16)
8. The Civility of the Judgment (Hosea 7:13)
 
HOSEA 8
 
A. The Manner of the Proclamation
 
Hosea 8:1
1. Alarm in the Speaking (Hosea 8:1)
2. Authority in the Speaking. (Hosea 8:1)
3. Audibleness of the Speaking (Hosea 8:1)
B. The Message in the Proclamation
 
Hosea 8:1–14
1. The Indictments (Hosea 8:1–4, 9–10, 12–14)
2. The Inflictions (Hosea 8:1, 4, 6–8, 10, 13, 14)
 
HOSEA 9
 
A. The Retribution for Sin
 
Hosea 9:2–6, 11, 12, 14–16
1. The Depletion (Hosea 9:2, 14)
2. The Dwelling (Hosea 9:3, 15, 17)
3. The Devotion (Hosea 9:4, 5)
4. The Death (Hosea 9:6, 12, 16)
5. The Departure (Hosea 9:11)
6. The Distress (Hosea 9:12)
7. The Dislike (Hosea 9:15)
B. The Record of Sin
 
Hosea 9:1, 7–10, 13, 15
1. Their Delight (Hosea 9:1)
2. Their Desire (Hosea 9:1)
3. Their Derision (Hosea 9:7, 8)
4. Their Depth (Hosea 9:9, 15)
5. Their Doctrine (Hosea 9:1, 10)
6. Their Desecration (Hosea 9:13)
7. Their Defiance (Hosea 9:15)
 
HOSEA 10
 
A. The Condemnation for the Sins
 
Hosea 10:1–3, 5–8, 10, 11, 14, 15
1. The Desire for the Judgment (Hosea 10:10)
2. The Depletion in the Judgment (Hosea 10:1, 14)
3. The Destruction in the Judgment (Hosea 10:2, 8, 14)
4. The Dethronement in the Judgment (Hosea 10:3, 7, 15)
5. The Dread in the Judgment (Hosea 10:5)
6. The Disgrace in the Judgment (Hosea 10:6)
7. The Discomfort of the Judgment (Hosea 10:11)
B. The Catalogue of the Sins
 
Hosea 10:1, 2, 4–6, 8, 9, 13, 15
1. The Doctrine in the sin (Hosea 10:1, 5, 6, 8)
2. The Dishonesty in the sin (Hosea 10:4, 13)
3. The Dividing in the sin (Hosea 10:2)
4. The Duration of the sin (Hosea 10:9)
5. The Depth of the sin (Hosea 10:13, 15)
C. The Command in the Sins
 
Hosea 10:12
1. Sowing (Hosea 10:12)
2. Softening (Hosea 10:12)
3. Seeking (Hosea 10:12)
 
HOSEA 11
 
A. The Privileges of Israel
 
Hosea 11:1–4
1. Their Love (Hosea 11:1)
2. Their Location (Hosea 11:2)
3. Their Learning (Hosea 11:4)
4. Their Life (Hosea 11:4)
B. The Perniciousness of Israel
 
Hosea 11:5–7, 12
1. Their Doctrine (Hosea 11:2)
2. Their Determination (Hosea 11:7)
3. Their Deceit (Hosea 11:12)
4. Their Damnation (Hosea 11:5, 6)
C. The Passion for Israel
 
Hosea 11:8–11
1. The Contemplation of the Passion (Hosea 11:8)
2. The Charity in the Passion (Hosea 11:9–11)
 
HOSEA 12
 
A. The Condemnation of Ephraim
 
Hosea 12:1, 7–11, 14
1. His Destitution is Condemned (Hosea 12:1)
2. The Deceit is Condemned (Hosea 12:1, 7)
3. The Distrust is Condemned (Hosea 12:1)
4. The Disclaimer is Condemned (Hosea 12:8)
5. The Damnation is Condemning (Hosea 12:14)
6. The Devotion is Condemning (Hosea 12:9)
7. The Doctrine is Condemned (Hosea 12:11)
B. The Controversy with Judah
 
Hosea 12:2
1. The Performance for the Controversy (Hosea 12:2)
2. The Punishment in the Controversy (Hosea 12:2)
C. The Chronicles of Jacob
 
Hosea 12:3–5, 12, 13
1. His Birth (Hosea 12:3)
2. His Battle (Hosea 12:3, 4)
3. His Bethel (Hosea 12:4, 5)
4. His Background (Hosea 12:12, 13)
5. His Betterment (Hosea 12:6)
 
HOSEA 13
 
A. The Consequences for the Sin
 
Hosea 13:1, 2, 3, 7–9, 13, 15, 16
1. Demotion (Hosea 13:1)
2. Disappearance (Hosea 13:3)
3. Devoured (Hosea 13:7, 8)
4. Destruction (Hosea 13:9)
5. Despair (Hosea 13:13)
6. Depletion (Hosea 13:15)
7. Desolation (Hosea 13:16)
B. The Character of the Sin
 
Hosea 13:1, 2, 5, 6, 10–12
1. Disdain (Hosea 13:1, 6)
2. Doctrine (Hosea 13:1, 2, 6)
3. Dishonor (Hosea 13:4, 5, 6, 10)
4. Deceit (Hosea 13:12)
5. Defiance (Hosea 13:16)
C. The Cure for the Sin
 
Hosea 13:14
1. The Price of the Cure (Hosea 13:14)
2. The Power of the Cure (Hosea 13:14)
3. The Persistency of the Cure (Hosea 13:14)
 
HOSEA 14
 
A. The Summons to Repent
 
Hosea 14:1–3
1. The Command in the Summons (Hosea 14:1)
2. The Condemnation in the Summons (Hosea 14:1)
3. The Confession in the Summons (Hosea 14:2, 3)
B. The Specifics of the Pardon
 
Hosea 14:4–8
1. The Promise in the Pardon (Hosea 14:4)
2. The Prosperity in the Pardon (Hosea 14:5–7)
C. The Summary of the Message
 
Hosea 14:9
1. The Comprehension in the Summary (Hosea 14:9)
2. The Conclusion in the Summary (Hosea 14:9)
3. The Conduct in the Summary (Hosea 14:9)
4. The Curse in the Summary (Hosea 14:9)
 


#8 Tony Lawrence

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 03:05 PM

I love both Butler and Phillips, but don't forget Handfuls on Purpose either. Handfuls is not as extensive as either Butler or Phillips and doesn't alway alliterate, but does offer some well thought out outlines of significant passages. It is also not as expensive either Butler or Phillips.

 

Here is an outline from Hosea 6.

 

Hosea 6:1.
1. A Confession of Need, “The Lord.”
2. A Confession of Sin, “Return.”
3. A Confession of Suffering, “Torn.”
4. A Confession of Faith, “He will heal.”

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#9 eshane7

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 11:31 PM

Thank you for the info on this.  I was not aware of Handfuls on Purpose.  Thanks for the tip.  That will be something I will have to keep an eye on.  I do like comprehensive material, So I'm really leaning towards Butler.  He is certainly comprehensive!  I really like Phillips style though.  I can't say the same for Butler, but mostly because I have never really read him. 







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