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What Greek text is the Greek Parsing tool based on


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#1 Daniel Semler

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 09:46 AM

Hi ya,

 

  I am looking at this curious passage in Hebrews :

 

9     οὐ κατὰ τὴν διαθήκην, ἣν ἐποίησα τοῖς πατράσιν αὐτῶν
        ἐν ἡμέρᾳ ἐπιλαβομένου μου τῆς χειρὸς αὐτῶν
        ἐξαγαγεῖν αὐτοὺς ἐκ γῆς Αἰγύπτου,
    ὅτι αὐτοὶ οὐκ ἐνέμειναν ἐν τῇ διαθήκῃ μου,
        κἀγὼ ἠμέλησα αὐτῶν, λέγει κύριος·

 

  It's a quote from Jeremiah but the curious bit is the fact that the bit in bold is in the genitive. I was looking the Greek Parsing tool and found that its Greek does not align with GNT28. Checking the top of the tool it says its based on the KJV which is of course based largely on the TR. Checking the GNT-TRS shows the same wording as above. So I am puzzled by the following :

 

     “in”    G1722    ἐν    ἐν    preposition
     “the day”    G2250    ἡμέρᾳ    ἡμέρα    common noun dative feminine singular
     “when I”    G3450    μου    ἐγώ    personal pronoun first genitive singular
     “took”    G1949    ἐπιλαβομένου    ἐπιλαμβάνομαι    verb second aorist middle participle genitive masculine singular
     “them”    G0846    τοῖς    ὁ    definite article dative masculine plural
     “by the hand”    G5495    χειρὸς    χείρ    common noun genitive feminine singular
     “to lead them”    G0846    αὐτῶν    αὐτός    personal pronoun third genitive masculine plural
 

  Why is the μου before the ἐπιλαβομένου and in particular where the τοις comes from.

  It does not appear that the sequence of Strong's keys in this passage in the KJVS matches the sequence in the parsing tool quoted above either.

 

  Anyone know where the Greek in this tool comes from ?

 

Thx

D
 


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#2 Steve King

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 10:25 AM

I suspect the μου is before the ἐπιλαβομένου to fit in with the english translation (same thing happens in v10).

My guess would be the τοις is probably an error (it is not that in any of the Greek texts I have - The LXX does not have τοις either).


Edited by Steve King, 23 July 2014 - 10:30 AM.

Steve King Running Accordance 11.0.2 on:

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#3 Daniel Semler

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 10:35 AM

Thanx Steve. Yes I wondered if it might be the order of the English and looking further at it that would make sense. It seems to be a resource based on English and Strong's numbers, so English taking precedence would do this. Its a little tricky as a resource, this parsing guide, though because I would have taken the "when" as coming from the temporal participle not the pronoun but again that could be explained by English construction. The vagueries of Strong's tagging I guess. And yes I guess τοις must be an error. I'll report it as such and it can be evaluated by Oaktree.

 

Thx

D


Accordance Configurations :
 
Mac : 2009 27" iMac                 Windows : HP 4540s laptop
      Intel Core Duo                          Intel i5 Ivy Bridge
      12GB RAM                                8GB RAM
      Accordance 11.0.1                       Accordance 11.0.1
      OSX 10.9 (Mavericks)                    Win 7 Professional x64 SP1


#4 James Tucker

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 10:57 AM

Yeah, the parsing tool needs some attention on this verse! 



#5 Timothy Jenney

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 12:38 PM

Daniel,

 

Did you select the Greek from the NA28-T and then parse it? That's the procedure I'd recommend, rather than selecting a passage in English. If you do the latter, it will always be sorted by the English order and its glosses ("definitions") only as good those in the Key Number Dictionary.


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#6 Daniel Semler

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 12:43 PM

Hey Tim,

 

  I didn't produce the parsing. It comes from the Greek Parsing tool which works the opposite way around - I don't know how its parsing was originally produced. I can generate a correct Greek parsing for sure as you describe - well except not from NA28 but GNT28 but otherwise the same. I only mentioned this because I was casting about for information on the genitive in this case and happened upon this tool which I'd never previously used, and its content seemed odd to me.

 

Thx

D


Accordance Configurations :
 
Mac : 2009 27" iMac                 Windows : HP 4540s laptop
      Intel Core Duo                          Intel i5 Ivy Bridge
      12GB RAM                                8GB RAM
      Accordance 11.0.1                       Accordance 11.0.1
      OSX 10.9 (Mavericks)                    Win 7 Professional x64 SP1


#7 Timothy Jenney

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 12:58 PM

Ah, that helps! Sorry I misunderstood.

 

I suppose that someone could use this tool on iOS in a parallel pane with an N/KJV as the search text, as Accordance iOS doesn't have a parsing tool. Even then, Instant Details can provide this information. Otherwise, I have trouble imagining what use anyone would find for this tool.


Blessings,
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#8 Helen Brown

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 01:13 PM

The Greek Parsing was intended to provide basic information for users who study the English text and do not have or cannot use the Greek. It's a parallel to the Wigram's Hebrew verbs, and I am sure it was based on KJV with Strong's. It's certainly not a tool for serious scholars.


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#9 Tony Lawrence

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 01:16 PM

The tool to which he refers is this: http://www.accordanc...d=Greek Parsing

 

I got the tool with the old Zondervan Scholarly Suite. It function has been superseded by what you described above using a tagged text and choosing the parsing tool, or better (in my opinion) using the Interlinear along with 2-3 English translations. However, the tool did (and does) have value for one trying to learn grammar as the parsing information is hyperlinked to the instant details explaining, for instance, a present active indicative verb. 


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#10 Daniel Semler

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 01:30 PM

Otherwise, I have trouble imagining what use anyone would find for this tool.

Yep agreed. I just stumbled upon it. I believe I may now have the answer to the question that actually led me here in the first place.

 

 

The Greek Parsing was intended to provide basic information for users who study the English text and do not have or cannot use the Greek. It's a parallel to the Wigram's Hebrew verbs, and I am sure it was based on KJV with Strong's. It's certainly not a tool for serious scholars.

 

Ah thanx for that. That explains what its for. Thx

 

 

Thx

D


Accordance Configurations :
 
Mac : 2009 27" iMac                 Windows : HP 4540s laptop
      Intel Core Duo                          Intel i5 Ivy Bridge
      12GB RAM                                8GB RAM
      Accordance 11.0.1                       Accordance 11.0.1
      OSX 10.9 (Mavericks)                    Win 7 Professional x64 SP1





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