Jump to content


Photo

Using the ARC method with Accordance


  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 davidmedina

davidmedina

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 543 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Juan, Puerto Rico
  • Interests:God, my family, the Bible, photography and film.
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 10 August 2014 - 09:02 PM

I am reading about the ARC method and arcing. Does anyone here has any experience using it with Accordance? 

 

Any guidance will be greatly appreciated. 

 

Thanks


"Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." Rom. 12:2
 
Blog: The Renewed Mind.

#2 Daniel Semler

Daniel Semler

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,698 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 11 August 2014 - 02:41 AM

You might find the podcast in this topic interesting http://www.accordanc...=7943&hl=arcing

It doesn't provide an arcing how to in Acc but it shows its definitely very possible to do.

 

Thx

D


Accordance Configurations :
 
Mac : 2009 27" iMac                 Windows : HP 4540s laptop
      Intel Core Duo                          Intel i5 Ivy Bridge
      12GB RAM                                8GB RAM
      Accordance 11.0.1                       Accordance 11.0.1
      OSX 10.9 (Mavericks)                    Win 7 Professional x64 SP1


#3 Timothy Jenney

Timothy Jenney

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,667 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sunny Winter Haven, FL
  • Interests:a good cup of coffee, sci-fi, playing bass, listing to jazz and the blues, camping, fishing and the great outdoors
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 11 August 2014 - 07:42 AM

I recently visited the Bible Arc site. They used to offer basic instruction in the method for free on this site, but I couldn't find it this time. It appears they have changed their policy to offering paid courses only. At least, that was all I was able to find.

 

Disappointed...


Blessings,
"Dr. J"

Timothy P. Jenney, Ph. D.
"Lighting the Lamp" Host and Producer

 

Mac: Early 2011 17" MBP (8,3), 2.3 GHz Quad core, 16 GB RAM, Mercury 6G 480 SSD + 1.5 TB HD, OSX 10.10, Yosemite

iPhone 6 plus 64 GB iOS 8.1


#4 davidmedina

davidmedina

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 543 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Juan, Puerto Rico
  • Interests:God, my family, the Bible, photography and film.
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 11 August 2014 - 09:25 AM

Thanks.

Dr. J, I am not sure if it is the same but when you login there is a very basic explanation of the arcing method. It is not easy to find it, I just stumbled into it. I did however found something John Piper wrote and I will take a look.

Is there a podcast or have you considered doing a podcast or training on how to do sentence flow charting method that you teach your students? I would love to learn it.
  • PhilT likes this
"Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." Rom. 12:2
 
Blog: The Renewed Mind.

#5 Timothy Jenney

Timothy Jenney

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,667 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sunny Winter Haven, FL
  • Interests:a good cup of coffee, sci-fi, playing bass, listing to jazz and the blues, camping, fishing and the great outdoors
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 11 August 2014 - 10:10 AM

Hi, David!

 

I am currently writing a Bible Study Methods course for Accordance that will include the method. Meanwhile, If you have Fee's NT Exegesis, it offers a slightly different version of the method on pp. 41ff.


  • Julie Falling and revtim like this

Blessings,
"Dr. J"

Timothy P. Jenney, Ph. D.
"Lighting the Lamp" Host and Producer

 

Mac: Early 2011 17" MBP (8,3), 2.3 GHz Quad core, 16 GB RAM, Mercury 6G 480 SSD + 1.5 TB HD, OSX 10.10, Yosemite

iPhone 6 plus 64 GB iOS 8.1


#6 davidmedina

davidmedina

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 543 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Juan, Puerto Rico
  • Interests:God, my family, the Bible, photography and film.
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 11 August 2014 - 12:14 PM

Awesome! Looking forward to that. In the meantime I'll look into Fee's book.

 

Thanks


  • Timothy Jenney likes this
"Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." Rom. 12:2
 
Blog: The Renewed Mind.

#7 Julie Falling

Julie Falling

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,398 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Tennessee
  • Interests:Numerous!
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 12 August 2014 - 08:45 AM

I did a search for 'bible arcing how-to' and found this.  Looks useful.

 

EDIT:  It's downloadable, from Piper.


Edited by Julie Falling, 12 August 2014 - 08:47 AM.

  • danieleburrow likes this

Julia Falling

 

Accordance 11

MacBook Air Yosemite

mid-2013 1.7 GHz Intel Core i7 (2 cores)

8 GB RAM; 512 G SSD

 

Mac mini Yosemite Acc 11

late-2012 2.3GHz Intel Core i7 (4 cores)

16 GB RAM; 1.12  TB Fusion Drive

 

iPad Air 1 iOS 8.1

64 GB

 

 

 

 


#8 Timothy Jenney

Timothy Jenney

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,667 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sunny Winter Haven, FL
  • Interests:a good cup of coffee, sci-fi, playing bass, listing to jazz and the blues, camping, fishing and the great outdoors
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 12 August 2014 - 09:16 AM

Thanks, Julie! this is very helpful.


Blessings,
"Dr. J"

Timothy P. Jenney, Ph. D.
"Lighting the Lamp" Host and Producer

 

Mac: Early 2011 17" MBP (8,3), 2.3 GHz Quad core, 16 GB RAM, Mercury 6G 480 SSD + 1.5 TB HD, OSX 10.10, Yosemite

iPhone 6 plus 64 GB iOS 8.1


#9 davidmedina

davidmedina

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 543 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Juan, Puerto Rico
  • Interests:God, my family, the Bible, photography and film.
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:06 PM

Yes, Thanks. 

 

I did find a Arcing 101 series within the app itself (on the right panel). I must say that it looks very interesting concept.  I am also reading Fee's NT Exegesis as suggested by Dr. J. We need a 30 hours day so I can get everything (or most) of what I want to do each day. lol


  • danieleburrow and Timothy Jenney like this
"Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." Rom. 12:2
 
Blog: The Renewed Mind.

#10 Julie Falling

Julie Falling

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,398 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Tennessee
  • Interests:Numerous!
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 13 August 2014 - 02:04 PM

I am currently writing a Bible Study Methods course for Accordance that will include the method. Meanwhile, If you have Fee's NT Exegesis, it offers a slightly different version of the method on pp. 41ff.

 

That sounds great, Dr J.  In the meantime, we can start to get a handle on the method. Like the flow-charting you have shown in one of your podcasts, arcing is a way to break the text down for the purpose of determining how it all works in relation to the parts and determining what is being said, right?  Mounce has a section on phrasing in his Graded Reader that looks a lot like flow-charting.  Is one method superior to another, or is it just a matter of preference?


Julia Falling

 

Accordance 11

MacBook Air Yosemite

mid-2013 1.7 GHz Intel Core i7 (2 cores)

8 GB RAM; 512 G SSD

 

Mac mini Yosemite Acc 11

late-2012 2.3GHz Intel Core i7 (4 cores)

16 GB RAM; 1.12  TB Fusion Drive

 

iPad Air 1 iOS 8.1

64 GB

 

 

 

 


#11 Timothy Jenney

Timothy Jenney

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,667 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sunny Winter Haven, FL
  • Interests:a good cup of coffee, sci-fi, playing bass, listing to jazz and the blues, camping, fishing and the great outdoors
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 13 August 2014 - 02:56 PM

Hi, Julie!

 

Yes, I saw Mounce's chapter, too. [It's odd. I thought I created this method in the late 80s/early 90s, a result of becoming frustrated with trying to teach students sentence diagramming. Both Fee and Mounce published this method somewhat later (though neither took credit for inventing it). I am wondering if my students passed this along to them and they both liked it—or if a number of us just created similar methods at about the same time. Curious...]

 

Anyway, Bible arcing is more highly structured. It seems to focus more on the nature of the relationship between phrases, asking students to define precisely what that is in each case. The latter part of Piper's paper illustrates that perfectly. Honestly, I am not sure how I feel about that. I like its precision and can see where it would be really helpful in complex didactic passages (where the method shines). I am concerned, however, that it is so involved practitioners might wind up focusing more on their analysis than the text itself! Does that make sense?


  • danieleburrow and davidmedina like this

Blessings,
"Dr. J"

Timothy P. Jenney, Ph. D.
"Lighting the Lamp" Host and Producer

 

Mac: Early 2011 17" MBP (8,3), 2.3 GHz Quad core, 16 GB RAM, Mercury 6G 480 SSD + 1.5 TB HD, OSX 10.10, Yosemite

iPhone 6 plus 64 GB iOS 8.1


#12 Julie Falling

Julie Falling

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,398 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Tennessee
  • Interests:Numerous!
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 13 August 2014 - 03:17 PM

Yeah, it does make sense.  The analysis ought to have understanding the text as the goal, not the production of a really impressive arc-diagram.  Or pinning down the 'unpinnable.'  Sometimes the text is ambiguous.  I think what Ryken says in The Word of God in English is correct – if there is ambiguity, it is intended by the Author.  It might not be either/or, but both/and.  Still, the thinking that goes into producing an arc ought to get the student to at least think about what is going on.  We don't do that enough – at least I don't. 

 

Studying a Biblical language is the same —> the goal ought to be understanding the text.  Frankly, I fell in love with Greek and enjoy the language for itself.  But mostly I love what it can tell me that I can't get from just an English version.  I just don't have the time to devote to study that I would like to have.

 

EDIT – The flow-charting looks very useful.  Maybe Mounce was having the same problem with his students?  Maybe he learned it from one of yours?  You might want to ask him!  It's a sad thing that sentence diagramming has mostly gone by the wayside.  Those poor kids with whom I shared a classroom for Greek!  Their biggest obstacle early on was their lack of understanding of English grammar.  They were bright kids.  They'd just never been taught much grammar.  They struggled with learning English grammar and Greek grammar at the same time.  I went to a public school back in the 'dark ages' when there was actually some grammar taught, and Latin was an available elective.  


Edited by Julie Falling, 13 August 2014 - 03:25 PM.

  • danieleburrow likes this

Julia Falling

 

Accordance 11

MacBook Air Yosemite

mid-2013 1.7 GHz Intel Core i7 (2 cores)

8 GB RAM; 512 G SSD

 

Mac mini Yosemite Acc 11

late-2012 2.3GHz Intel Core i7 (4 cores)

16 GB RAM; 1.12  TB Fusion Drive

 

iPad Air 1 iOS 8.1

64 GB

 

 

 

 


#13 Timothy Jenney

Timothy Jenney

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,667 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sunny Winter Haven, FL
  • Interests:a good cup of coffee, sci-fi, playing bass, listing to jazz and the blues, camping, fishing and the great outdoors
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 13 August 2014 - 03:38 PM

Yes! Students often find they need to learn the grammar of their native language before they learn the grammar of a foreign language.

 

I also think you captured what I meant to say better than I said it: "Sometimes the text is ambiguous." And "not the production of a really impressive arc-diagram."

 

Next time I see Fee or Mounce, I may just ask them. Hadn't really thought of it until now. I know I'd be honored if I had created a method that was used by men of this caliber. Hey, I'm just impressed we have all thought it useful enough to pass it along to our students!


Blessings,
"Dr. J"

Timothy P. Jenney, Ph. D.
"Lighting the Lamp" Host and Producer

 

Mac: Early 2011 17" MBP (8,3), 2.3 GHz Quad core, 16 GB RAM, Mercury 6G 480 SSD + 1.5 TB HD, OSX 10.10, Yosemite

iPhone 6 plus 64 GB iOS 8.1


#14 Julie Falling

Julie Falling

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,398 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Tennessee
  • Interests:Numerous!
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 13 August 2014 - 03:54 PM

 

Next time I see Fee or Mounce, I may just ask them. Hadn't really thought of it until now. I know I'd be honored if I had created a method that was used by men of this caliber. Hey, I'm just impressed we have all thought it useful enough to pass it along to our students!

 

Well, wherever the idea may have originated, or if it sprang up, out of necessity, in multiple minds at different schools, the goal is the same:  to enable students to analyze and understand the Biblical text when they've entered college hampered by an inadequate understanding of their own language (and unable to diagram a sentence).  I remember a very good student asking, 'What's an adverb?"  Makes one wonder what is going on in the American classroom, doesn't it?


Julia Falling

 

Accordance 11

MacBook Air Yosemite

mid-2013 1.7 GHz Intel Core i7 (2 cores)

8 GB RAM; 512 G SSD

 

Mac mini Yosemite Acc 11

late-2012 2.3GHz Intel Core i7 (4 cores)

16 GB RAM; 1.12  TB Fusion Drive

 

iPad Air 1 iOS 8.1

64 GB

 

 

 

 


#15 Timothy Jenney

Timothy Jenney

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,667 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sunny Winter Haven, FL
  • Interests:a good cup of coffee, sci-fi, playing bass, listing to jazz and the blues, camping, fishing and the great outdoors
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 13 August 2014 - 04:12 PM

Julie, you [and I!] are far behind the times.

 

Don't you know there isn't any such thing as an adverb anymore? People go "quick" or draw "good." I can't recall the last time I heard "-ly" appended to an adjective and used correctly as an adverb. It isn't "language drift" anymore; it's "language in decline"!


Edited by Timothy Jenney, 13 August 2014 - 04:13 PM.

  • davidmedina likes this

Blessings,
"Dr. J"

Timothy P. Jenney, Ph. D.
"Lighting the Lamp" Host and Producer

 

Mac: Early 2011 17" MBP (8,3), 2.3 GHz Quad core, 16 GB RAM, Mercury 6G 480 SSD + 1.5 TB HD, OSX 10.10, Yosemite

iPhone 6 plus 64 GB iOS 8.1


#16 Julie Falling

Julie Falling

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,398 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Tennessee
  • Interests:Numerous!
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 13 August 2014 - 04:31 PM

Amen!  And it's sad.  Language is a gift.  It's principally how the Lord communicates with us, and also how we communicate with one another.  Used well, it can be a source of joy.  Used poorly, . . . . let's not go there.


Julia Falling

 

Accordance 11

MacBook Air Yosemite

mid-2013 1.7 GHz Intel Core i7 (2 cores)

8 GB RAM; 512 G SSD

 

Mac mini Yosemite Acc 11

late-2012 2.3GHz Intel Core i7 (4 cores)

16 GB RAM; 1.12  TB Fusion Drive

 

iPad Air 1 iOS 8.1

64 GB

 

 

 

 


#17 Daniel Semler

Daniel Semler

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,698 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 13 August 2014 - 04:35 PM

Some of us still use them goodly :)

 

But I wonder about what the classically educated Greek's thought when they saw Koine

We seem to be happy to discuss the disappearance of particular forms and constructs in ancient languages but in our own we look on it differently. This seems natural - it's what we grew up with and now it's "changing", for better or worse - not sure which. I say this I might add as one who pretty regularly cringes at things I see written in the press.

 

In English we have a number of influences bearing on the language that I suspect also bore on Greek at one time.

 

Language is so interesting ....

 

I meant to comment on the phrasing, arcing etc. thing. I've not used arcing but I have used Phrasing. I was never taught grammatical diagramming but I've played with the basics. Grammatical diagramming seems to be just that - aimed at exposing grammatical elements in visual form. It's pretty low level. Phrasing and arcing attempt to work at a higher level to expose and clarify meaning. Mounce's reader which explains phrasing indicates that it's trying to expose which thoughts (phrases) are subordinate to the other and which are peers. Arcing seems to formalise some of this a bit more. But the both slow the reader down so he/she can think in detail about what is written and by so doing actually begin to understand what it's really trying to convey - perhaps that's the main point. For some, a very formal method may be more desirable but I share the concern about a text being forced into an analysis technique, for its own sake.

 

Thx

D


Edited by Daniel Semler, 13 August 2014 - 05:27 PM.

  • danieleburrow likes this

Accordance Configurations :
 
Mac : 2009 27" iMac                 Windows : HP 4540s laptop
      Intel Core Duo                          Intel i5 Ivy Bridge
      12GB RAM                                8GB RAM
      Accordance 11.0.1                       Accordance 11.0.1
      OSX 10.9 (Mavericks)                    Win 7 Professional x64 SP1


#18 Ken Simpson

Ken Simpson

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,833 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney, Australia
  • Interests:Astronomy
    Archaeology
    Physics
    Hebrew and Greek
    Papyrology
    Orthopædic Surgery
    Yosemite 10.10.1
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 13 August 2014 - 07:11 PM

AS someone who began in classical Greek, Koine, was a shock. Gutter Greek, or as we might say here in Australia, Bogan-Greek, perhaps Hicksville Greek would resonate with you "Muricans.

 

Don't forget the rules, just ignore them whenever you want, or you can't be bothered or....

 

Oh well, enough complaining.


  • Tony Pyles likes this

Regards
Ken
Lead Australian Accordance Demonstrator

Administrator, Accordance Exchange

Assistant Minister, Summer Hill Church


#19 davidmedina

davidmedina

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 543 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Juan, Puerto Rico
  • Interests:God, my family, the Bible, photography and film.
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 14 August 2014 - 12:01 AM

After looking at the videos at Bible Arc I think is best to use their software for arcing as it has everything needed. After all it was designed for that. 


"Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." Rom. 12:2
 
Blog: The Renewed Mind.

#20 Steve King

Steve King

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 429 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hoddesdon, Hertfordshire, UK
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 14 August 2014 - 02:47 AM

I have used arcing a bit. Using the website makes it a lot easier than using in Accordance. You can save your results as a PDF so when we can reference external files in Accordance notes it will really help.

What I find arcing really good at is getting to grips with the flow of an argument in a section of scripture. As Dr J points out it is not really designed for narrative but for didactic passages. It works well in Jesus' teaching passages in John, for instance. In the past I have often tried to get to grips the the flow of a book but then focused down at verse level such that verses can get disconnected from each other. Arcing helps to force you away from that.

Of course you still need to understand the context of the whole book which arcing is not really so helpful for, although the results of it can feed back up into the flow of the book. Interestingly when I was reading the NT Wright/John Piper books on justification NT Wright seemed to be at the 'overall thrust of the book level' and John Piper at the arcing level. I really wanted something that synthesised both.

I think, as with any technique, we can assume there must be a 'right' answer and only one 'right' answer which is a problem of our implementation of it rather than the technique. Arcing tends to highlight the options available and therefore the decisions to make and so can highlight ambiguity in a similar way to how Wallace describes the use of genitive, for example, in his grammar which gives you all the possible options but only couple may fit. You then have to decide whether there is ambiguity or a correct option.

I tend to stick with the ambiguity because I don't like making decisions!
  • danieleburrow and Timothy Jenney like this

Steve King Running Accordance 11.0.2 on:

Mac 10.9.5 (Mavericks), mid-2010 Macbook Pro, 4Gb RAM

IOS 8 (iPad 2 and iPhone 5)





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users