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APOCAL-T: the Christian Apocryphal Apocalypses


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#1 Enoch

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 08:37 PM

Am I correct that the APOCAL-T module  (= the Christian Apocryphal Apocalypses)

is not the Tischendorf Apocalypses Apocryphae ?

 

Today I bought the Accordance Greek Master Complete set of Greek texts and tools thinking that the APOCAL-T module included was the Tischendorf Apocalyses Apocryphae, jumping to that conclusion from the -T suffix.  I was disappointed not to be able to find that Tischendorf collection -- or did I just fail to find it somehow?

 
I was wanting to be able to search the Tischendorf collection for Greek vocabulary examples, as it contains a very interesting use of apostasia for a rapture (that of Mary in the Dormition of Mary, aka   IOHANNIS LIBER DE DORMITIONE MARIAEJohannis Liber de Dormitione MariaeThe Account of St. John the Theologian 
[ = the Apostle John] of the Dormition of the Holy Mother of God, and The Assumption of  the Virgin.  Apostasia(n) is at the bottom of p. 105 of  V. lOHANNIS LIBER DE DORMITIONE MARIAE.

 

The public domain Tischendorf Apocalypses Apocryphae collection in Greek is available free on line at

 

https://archive.org/...apocr02tiscuoft

 

However, I can find no way to copy and paste it into a word processor.  And I don't know anyway to search it properly for Greek vocabulary.  One can save the pdf file from archive.org, but I know of no way to convert it into something readable on a word processor.  Copying and pasting from the pdf file to Word for Mac 2008 does not work.  Perhaps someone reading this knows how to convert this pdf file to something readable in a word processor.  One can do at least limited searching using the pdf Adobe search system.


Edited by Enoch, 15 August 2014 - 08:55 PM.


#2 Ken Simpson

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 08:51 PM

From the readme

 

Notes on the Christian Apocryphal Apolcalypses (APOCAL-T)

 

November 2010

 

Electronic text prepared by:

 

Craig A. Evans, Acadia Divinity College, Wolfville, Nova Scotia CANADA and

Rex A. Koivisto, Multnomah University, Portland, Oregon USA

 

...

 

Copyright © 2010 OakTree Software, Inc.

 

 

Important Notes

 

There are eight basic texts represented in this collection: Four have survived in the entirety; the fifth (Apocalypse of John Chrysostom) represents a unique variation of the fourth; the sixth (Questions of Bartholomew) is partially preserved in Greek; the seventh (Apocalypse of Peter) is represented by three Greek fragments and a series of patristic quotations; and the seventh (6Esdras) is a fragmentary variation of 2Esdras. The text base for the four main Apocalypses (Apocalypse of Moses, the Apocalypse of Ezra, the Apocalypse of Paul, and the Apocalypse of John) are reproduced from the following source: C. Tischendorf, Apocalypses Apocryphae (Leipzig: H. Mendelssohn, 1866). 

 

1. Apocalypsis Mosis ( = Life of Adam and Eve) [Accordance: ApMoses]. 

3rd-5th century.

 

2. Apocalypsis Esdrae ( = Greek Apocalypse of Ezra) [Accordance: ApEsdras]. 

2nd-9th century.

 

3. Apocalypsis Pauli ( = Apocalypse of Paul) [Accordance: ApPaul]. 

4th century.

 

4. Apocalypsis Iohannis ( = Apocalypse of John the Theologian) [Accordance: ApJohn]

6th century.

 

5. Apocalypse of John-N (= Apocalypse of John Chrysostom) [Accordance: ApJohn_N]. 6th century. NOTE: This unusual apocalypse is found in F. Nau, “Une deuxième Apocalypse apocryphe grecque de S. Jean,” Revue biblique 23 (1914) 209–21. See also John M. Court, The Book of Revelation and the Johannine Apocalyptic Tradition (Sheffield: Sheffield Academic Press, 2000). See especially chapter 4: “The Apocalypse of St. John Chrysostom” (pp. 67-104). 

 

6. Questions of Bartholomew (Also known as Gospel of Bartholomew) [Accordance: QBart]. 2nd to 5th century (?). Greek text is found in A. Wilmart and E. Tisserant, “Fragments grecs et latins de l’Évangiles de Bathélemy,” Revue biblique 10 (1913) 161–90, 321–68. An English translation of all is found in Elliott. Note, the Greek part of the text (as opposed to Slavonic and Latin) is 1:1–2, 4–11, 13–17, 18–23, 28–35; 2:1–22; 3:1–9; 4:1–71; 5:1–10. Note: This work is sometimes treated as a Gospel, but in recent discussion the Questions of Bartholomew is classified as an apocalypse. 

 

7. Apocalypse of Peter 

There are three Greek fragments and a collection of four Patristic quotations: 

The first is the Akhmîm fragment [Accordance: Peter_akm] (Codex P.Cair. 10759, which also contains the Gospel of Peter), which can be accessed in A. Lods, L’Évangile de l’Apocalypse de Pierre (Paris: E. Leroux, 1893) or E. Klostermann, Apocrypha I (KlT 3; Berlin: de Gruyter, 1933) 1:8–12. A newer, critical edition is also available in J. Kraus and T. Nicklas (eds.), Das Petrusevangelium und die Petrusapokalypse: Die griechischen Fragmente mit deutscher und englischer Übersetzung (GCS 11; Berlin and New York: de Gruyter, 2004) 101–20 (including an ET on pp. 118–20). 

The second is the Bodleian fragment [Accordance: Peter_bod.]( = Ms. Gr. theol. f. 4), which is available in M. R. James, “A New Text of the Apocalypse of Peter,” JTS 12 (1911) 36–54, 362–83 (367–69 = Bodleian fragment), 573–83; and “Additional Notes on the Apocalypse of Peter,” JTS 12 (1911) 157. 

The third is the Rainer fragment [Accordance: Peter_vin] (P.Vindob. G 39756( = van Haelst no. 0619), which is available in K. Prümm, “De genuine apocalypses Petri textu,” Biblica 10 (1929) 62–80; M. R. James, “The Rainer Fragment of the Apocalypse of Peter,” JTS 32 (1931) 270–79. A newer, critical edition is also available in Kraus and Nicklas (above), 126–28. 

d. Also, Patristic Quotations of the Apocalypse of Peter exist:[Accordance: Peter_quo]

1. Clement of Alexandria, Eclogae 41.2; cf. Stählin, GCS 17.2, p.149

2. Macarius Magnes, Apocritica 4.6. 

3. Macarius Magnes, Apocritica 4.7.

4. Methodius of Olympus, Symposium 2.6. 

 

8. 6Ezra (= 2 Esdras 15–16) [Accordance: 6Esdr]

P.Oxy 1010 [POxy vol. 7, 1910] = 2 Esdras 15:57–59 

 
So as you can see, Tischendorf is the base text for the major elements
 
The text base for the four main Apocalypses (Apocalypse of Moses, the Apocalypse of Ezra, the Apocalypse of Paul, and the Apocalypse of John) are reproduced from the following source: C. Tischendorf, Apocalypses Apocryphae (Leipzig: H. Mendelssohn, 1866). 
 
 
Just as an aside, if you download the epub, what that is is zipped package of (usually) html file. If you change the .epub extension to .zip you can then extract the html or text files and may be able to do something with that. However, in this case it seems there's an encoding problem in the file, because the greek doesn't show as Greek either in the epub reader or in the html file. It would take someone with more nous than me to work out what is going on and getting the  Greek to display as Greek. Then at least you would have a chance.

Edited by Ken Simpson, 15 August 2014 - 08:55 PM.

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Ken
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#3 Fabian

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 05:18 AM

Hello 

 

With http://calibre-ebook.com you can see in the Meta datas that the language is on new greek from 1453 or so to now. To change to old greek brings no better solution.

 

But you can on the download side make a bug report. that were be the best or if someone knows  more how Calibre works has a good solution to post here.

 

Greetings

 

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#4 Enoch

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 10:13 AM

Hello 
 
With http://calibre-ebook.com you can see in the Meta datas that the language is on new greek from 1453 or so to now. To change to old greek brings no better solution.
 
But you can on the download side make a bug report. that were be the best or if someone knows  more how Calibre works has a good solution to post here.
 
Greetings
 
Fabian

 Thanks Ken & Fabian.
 
I need to check into that, as I have no idea what new greek vs old greek means above.  You are saying that Archive.org has a setting for modern Greek (katharevousa / demotic) vs older Greek (Byzantine, Koine, Classical, Attic, Doric, etc.)? 
 
Then you are suggesting a bug report to Archive.org?  I had no idea what you mean by Calibre or what that has to do with this document and copying it.
 
I did go to your link and found that it seems to be some kind of e-book management system.  One thing I would like to do is manage my Logos library, as it has no folders like Accordance has.  For me the Logos library is much like a big room with a ton of books thrown around higgledy-piggledy.  These Bible programs seem to require that one take a college course in using them or devote oneself a month to studying them (without doing much else).
 
But thanks for introducing me to a new world.  (Take my hand, I'm a stranger in Paradise.)

Edited by Enoch, 16 August 2014 - 10:20 AM.


#5 Fabian

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 12:17 PM

Hi Enoch 

 

I have made a bug report. On the Link that you have posted is left up under the different filetype to download a link called: Help reading texts. There you came on a page where is written how to make a bug report.

 

I have calibre since a week and I'm really not an expert. But it were cool if calibre can epub etc. convert in one click in a format that we can import in Accordance or better they can make .acc7 files direct.

 

Or Accordance can Import epub etc. 

 

If you convert epub as HTMLZ in calibre then you have it to unzip with http://unarchiver.c3.cx or equivalent unzipper. My Mac would not unzip with the onboard unzipper:(

 

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


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#6 Graham Buck

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 08:24 AM

I took at look at this and there are several things going on here. The first is that the pdf is an image, not a text document. The second is that when I attempted to OCR with Acrobat I got the same sort of gibberish as is on the output from Archive.org. It did not matter if I changed the Primary language from English to Greek. This comes down to a software issue. The quality of the images doesn't help either. While readable, every little inconsistency in the image causes issue for any OCR.

 

I also did a search for the book elsewhere and while it was available, they also were image pdfs, subject to the same issues as that at Archive.org.

 

If you want a version of this work (as opposed to our wonderful APOCAL-T :D ) for Word, Accordance, or whatever other program you would like, it would take someone going page by page and transcribing.

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.


Edited by Graham Buck, 17 August 2014 - 08:25 AM.

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#7 Fabian

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 03:41 AM

Hello 

 

I have yesterday play a little bit with this text. But I had no time to post. And its good because, so I know that I don't have to buy Acrobat. Thanks Graham :D

 

I've  had the same problem with my Readiris OCR App because that can only one language at one time. And that can only 50 pages at one time. 

 

I've been looking since 2-3 weeks for another OCR software and I find two

 

http://www.abbyy.com they have also an online OCR with max. 2 languages and an OCR for Frakturschrift. Maybe Accordance give this a try for old german works theres a lot public domain that later translated to englisch which we have now in Accordance. But for me were German better ;)

 

But I have played with enolsoft.com Trial Version because I have wrote to them and they give me an answer. But I have no buy one. With the full Software you have no page limit.

There are many different Versions. For trial, take the full software. After you need only to .docx it is cheaper than the full Version. 

 

With the Trial Version you can only 3 pages at one Time convert. 

 

Download and set first the language on multiple language left above: select Greek and Englisch (Romain Latin is missing, but it works to).

With the 3 Button right above you can select what it is in the pdf. Sometimes you have what is select from the app to change. Often it has to many fields in the same text, then delete the fields to one and resize the last to cover the text.

 

And then you can convert as what you want. If you convert as .docx then it has some green background by the letters but with copy paste in another file this is away. When you use  .docx or .html sometimes comes the Footnotes correct but most no. So you have it to reset.

 

And the first Letter you have to change often the spiritus and akzent are false, as apostrophe or so.

 

Maybe with Abby you have a better solution, Try it and when yes, please give me a feedback. :)

 

If you have your work done: Don't forget it to post on  -_-

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


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#8 Fabian

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 03:54 AM

Sorry to be more precious.

 

5 pages at one time

 

And I have set one field for Title, one Text, one footnotes, 

but play a little bit maybe other is better e.g. 1 field for one footnote or so.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


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#9 Fabian

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 05:06 AM

Hi Enoch

for your Question about the Greek, the german wikipedia is here better than the englisch.

 

It's the ISO code that change at that time.

 

ISO 639-2:

grc (historische griechische Sprache bis 1453)

ISO 639-3:

grc (historische griechische Sprache bis 1453)

Greetings

 

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#10 Fabian

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 03:33 AM

Hi

 

After my bug report I get this Message:

 

Hi,

Thanks for contacting us.

It has been derived again and hopefully is better now.

Thanks for using archive.org

Best,
Jeff
Internet Archive Team

 

On 8/18/14, 12:56 PM, info box wrote:
 
So it must be better now.
 
Greetings
 
Fabian 

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#11 Enoch

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 09:46 PM

If you want a version of this work (as opposed to our wonderful APOCAL-T :D ) for Word, Accordance, or whatever other program you would like, it would take someone going page by page and transcribing.
 
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.


Well, unfortunately while I bought the APOCAL-T precisely to get the Dormition of Mary with all of the Tischendorf collection, the Accordance module does not have all the Tischendorf collection and specifically does not have the Dormition of Mary.

#12 Timothy Jenney

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 08:08 AM

Hi, Enoch!

 

Sorry the text you wanted wasn't included in the module. Accordance typically uses the "-T" suffix after the module abbreviation to indicate a text is morphologically tagged.


Blessings,
"Dr. J"

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