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#1 countach

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Posted 31 January 2007 - 08:35 PM

I recently switched to the Mac. I've been a Bibleworks user for quite a while. I can run Bibleworks on Crossover Mac, but it's buggy and annoying this way, so I started looking around at better options.

Now from what I gather, Accordance is the premier software for Macs.

But do my eyes deceive me, or is there no NA27 Greek for Accordance?

And do my eyes deceive me further that to buy all the stuff in the standard $349 bibleworks package, including all the English versions, Greek, Latin, apostolic fathers etc. is going to cost me upward (probably a lot upwards) of $600? And when I get around to affording BDAG and HALOT lexicons together it's going to cost me about $80 more than it would from bibleworks as well?

It's looking more and more attractive to get Parallels and a Windows licence for just the difference in cost.

#2 Joel Brown

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Posted 31 January 2007 - 09:00 PM

I'm not the best one to directly answer all your questions, nor is it my position to necessarily comment on Bibleworks v. Accordance, but I can tell you that we definitely have NA27:

GNT-T and GNT-NA at least. The GNT-T is probably the one to interest you, found in the Scholars Collection.
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#3 Lorinda H. M. Hoover

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Posted 31 January 2007 - 10:23 PM

When comparing modules between Bible Software programs, it's often the case of apples to oranges comparisons. So, while you are making price comparisons, make sure you are comparing the same things. Are the various modules really comparable? Does Accordance (or Bibleworks) pack more features (such as tagging, etc.) into what on the surface appear to be the same module?

One of the beauties (for me) of Accordance is the power of the user to decide what modules they need. In preparing to write this post, I looked briefly at the list of modules at the Bibleworks site. It is, indeed, an impressive list, and it is true that you cannot create a comparable package of Accordance modules for the same price. But in my case, I wouldn't need a lot of those modules. Unless you really use all of the modules in the Bibleworks package, a better comparison is to list all the modules you would use and calculate the Accordance price. (If you time your purchases right, you can also get in on some great sales) Some individuals also qualify for discounts.

Nor is it just about the modules. The programs work differently. I don't know anything about Bibleworks, so I can't compare the two programs, but I would encourage you to do some careful research on the features of the Accordance program. Maybe the difference in features/powers will justify the cost differential for you. Maybe not. One good place to start in comparing the programs is this review.

If, after some research (the review link I provided offers some good "follow up" links), you are still on the fence, one approach would be to purchase one of the least expensive Accordance packages (potentially just the program and the free modules) and "play" with it for a bit. You wouldn't be able to do any original language work that way, although there may be some demo modules of the tagged texts that include a few chapters from one book, to let you work through the tutorial. I don't remember clearly. In any event, that might help you decide if Accordance is what you are looking for or not.

I'm not trying to push you into Acccordance; you may, indeed, decide that running Bibleworks under Parallels is the better option for you. If you were starting from scratch, I'd say go for Accordance and build your library slowly (that's what I've done--still doing, actually). But you've already got Bibleworks, and depending on your needs, building slowly may not be an option.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck!

Running Accordance on:

Mac 10.9 (Mavericks)

iOS 7 (iPad)

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#4 Steve Raine

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Posted 31 January 2007 - 10:24 PM

Hi Countach--

Welcome to the Mac world. You're going to love it.


IMHO Accordance is not only the best Bible software for Mac, but for PCs, as well.


Please check out some comparative articles on different Bible software before drawing conclusions, especially regarding prices.


I believe you'll find significant advantages going with Accordance, such as more intuitive User Interface, fewer steps required to accomplish tasks, and the remarkable response time of the Accordance team.


Hopefully, many more on this Forum will respond. If so, I anticipate lots of praise, and only a dash of disappointment.


Blessings,
Steve

#5 autopistis

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 12:19 AM

Indeed, welcome to the Mac...

Parallels? That'll run you $80.
A windows license? Um... dunno, but I understand it can be several hundred.

I'd think very carefully before going that route, but then it depends on how much of an investment you've already made in Bibleworks.

Check out the Accordance demos and see if it does what you want, how you want it done.
Gord Welch
at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary
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#6 countach

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 03:52 AM

When it comes to bibleworks, what I really use a fair bit is:

Lots of English bible versions. Especially:

ESV, NASB, NAB, NJB, NIV, NET, NRSV, NLT, ASV, DRA, GNV, HCSB, RSV, NKJV, TEV, Brentons,

Hebrew,

Greek TR, WH, Majority text, NA27, LXX, (all appropriately tagged)

Jerome's Vulgate.

The apostolic fathers in Greek are occasionally useful, but I can live without them.

Lexicons: A few is good. One day would like to get BDAG and HALOT, but can live with a few others in the mean time.

Ok, so to get the tagged TR and Thayer's lexicon, I need the premier library for $279.

To get tagged Greek, I need Scholar's core, $249. LXX is an extra $80. (!!!).

Majority text is another $50. Brentons is another $40 (!!!)

BHS Hebrew is another $60.

Now because I want the Vulgate, I need the "Catholic" Collection at $149.

Then to complete my English bible collection I need the ESV at $30, HCSB $30
NIV $30, NKJV $30, NLT $30, TEV $30.

Coming to.... wow $1087. And even then I don't get the apostolic fathers I get in $349 bibleworks. And it will cost me about $80 more than bibleworks when I get a chance to buy BDAG and HALOT.

Now, from what I see, the actual Accordance software is comparable. Maybe it is better, maybe not. They both are very advanced in using the orginal languages. But that's tough pricing to take, more than 3x the price to get what I want.

Its kinda academic how good Accordance is when we're talking such a big amount of $$$ compared to the (excellent) bibleworks. It's even more hard to take when I already own all this biblical intellectual property. In theory all I need is the Accordance software and a way to convert the books.

Edited by countach, 01 February 2007 - 06:43 AM.


#7 Helen Brown

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 07:15 AM

We have to admit that one of the most difficult things about Accordance is the pricing system and deciding what to buy. There are a lot of options, but you seem to have missed some of the important ones.

For example, the Scholar's Core Bundle includes the GNT-T (NA27), GNT-TR, Thayers, several other Greek NT texts and lexicons, and the BHS-W4 with two lexicons. You can add the Vulgate for $50 as well as the LXX for $80 and Brenton $40. Everything on the first list is included in the bundle, everything on the second list can be added and unlocked. It also includes your choice of a modern bible, as well as the KJV and ASV and our unique Parallel modules.

If you do get the Library 7 Premier as well (within 3 months), you get a $60 discount, the NAS Group and many other Bibles, and your choice of three more modern Bibles. You also get a host of commentaries, theologies, devotional works, and much more.

So for $468 (less any applicable discounts) you get most of what you were asking for, nowhere near the $1087 you quote. I think you just need to add two more $30 Bibles to get everything you included in that sum.

If you have indeed mastered BibleWorks, you may find it quite a change to switch to Accordance, as our programming philosophy is very different. As suggested above, I recommend you start with a smaller package, if any, and try it out. Within three months you can upgrade to a bigger package without penalty, and if you just get the program and the Starter package, you get credit for that at any time when you buy a primary collection.
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#8 countach

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 09:10 AM

Ok I didn't read carefully to see the 3 free bible versions, my bad or the $60 discount. That takes it down by $150.

I didn't know you could get the Vulgate for $50, because if you click on it in Catholic section, it doesn't mention that. On the other hand, since NJB and NAB were on my list anyway, that saves $40 only. I missed that BHS is in scholars core, that saves $60.

But we're still at $837, not $468, because we've got to add LXX, 6 more English versions, majority text, and $40 for Brenton's.

I mean, as an Eastern Christian a STARTING POINT has to be the majority text which is $50, and the LXX, and translations thereof like Brentons. Why the LXX and Brentons which is out of copyright material costs $120 together I don't know. I got the dead tree version of both for less than half.


I'm going to have to think long and hard before investing 2.5 the cost I would pay on Windows for material I already own. This doesn't make it easy for switchers.

#9 Joel Brown

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 09:44 AM

Just to throw my 2 cents back in here, it does seem a bit unfortunate that comparing the Bibleworks package to Accordance module to module ends up costing much more. I don't know the exact reasoning behind the price for each module, but often when a module is used within Accordance it is able to do much more than a simple e-text, such as multiple field searching, smooth hyperlinking, a browser, and other things I'm sure I'm forgetting. That being said, I'd like to suggest a 3rd time to purchasing a small Accordance package just to get the basic feel for the software. Continue using Bibleworks on Crossover for now as your primary library source, but when all of those extra books aren't needed for the particular thing you are studying, try doing it in Accordance. I haven't used Bibleworks myself, so I can't personally compare the interfaces, but I've read multiple accounts on the forums here of users being so happy with Accordance, they keep using it and slowly expanding their library, using the other programs less and less. Again, results may differ as everybody has a particular strength, weakness, and thinking philosophy, but to me, getting a cheap Accordance package to just give it a whirl would be the best option right now.
Joel Brown

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#10 autopistis

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 09:53 AM

Wow, you've definitely invested a great deal in Bibleworks. I might suggest that for the time being you would be better off to find a way to continue where you are. If you have enough money to just switch at random and purchase that much I wonder if it is good stewardship of money...

On the other hand, it is not required that one purchase Accordance solely through the packages offered. Those packages are useful for some folks, but I find that I am more comfortable just purchasing the items I need without getting lots I don't. For example, I didn't buy any level of the scholar's collection, but I did purchase the scholar's collection CD and then purchased individual unlocks for the modules I needed. That makes it much less costly. I like it this way, too, because I don't end up with a modules I don't use, cluttering my system.

I really like the way Accordance folks run the business because of this extremely flexible way of purchasing only what is necessary. I understand from others that they are helpful in recommending to customers which modules would be useful and which would not.

Edited by autopistis, 01 February 2007 - 09:59 AM.

Gord Welch
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South Hamilton, MA, USA
simplechristians.blogspot.com

#11 Billy

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 11:26 AM

Don't forget about future upgrade costs.

BibleWorks 6 to 7 = $150.00
Accordance 6 to 7 = $29.00

Plus the search capabilities in Accordance are unmatched in ease of use and power. I have friends who are considering switching after seeing the graphical search capabilities in Accordance. I regularly help classmates with grammatical searches and they are always amazed.

Hope this helps,
Billy Todd
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#12 Kevin Soars

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 11:28 AM

Quote: (autopistis)

"I really like the way Accordance folks run the business because of this extremely flexible way of purchasing only what is necessary. I understand from others that they are helpful in recommending to customers which modules would be useful and which would not."

To add my twopence worth (I'm from England!).... I have to say DEFINITELY to the above and add: With Accordance (I know nothing of Bible Works) you would be getting an extremely knowledgeable, friendly and patient support team and on that "module" I, for one, couldn't begin to put a price!!!! And then all these kind and helpful responses to you on the forum!

Kevin.
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#13 jfidel

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 12:17 PM

Don't forget about future upgrade costs.

BibleWorks 6 to 7 = $150.00
Accordance 6 to 7 = $29.00

Plus the search capabilities in Accordance are unmatched in ease of use and power. I have friends who are considering switching after seeing the graphical search capabilities in Accordance. I regularly help classmates with grammatical searches and they are always amazed.

Hope this helps,
Billy Todd


Hi Billy, just to make sure we have some objectivity in this discussion, the $150 update includes the following in addition to program updates. Please note that BibleWorks is a great program and a great value. You can compare products and modules, but you cannot compare price.

Added modules with the $150 upgrade:

A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint, Volumes 1 & 2
J. Lust, E. Eynikel & K. Hauspie with the collaboration of G. Chamberlain
The first lexicon concentrating entirely on the Septuagint, this work occupies a pivotal place in modern exegetical study. Entries contain morphological tags.

A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research, 3rd edition
A. T. Robertson
Robertson’s grammar provides nearly 1500 pages of detailed notes for the advanced student and professor. In spite of more recent advances in the study of New Testament Greek, Robertson remains the advanced reference grammar by which all other New Testament Greek grammars are measured.

The CATSS/Tov Hebrew-Greek Parallel Alignment Module
The Revised CATSS Hebrew/Greek Text (Tov-Polak, 2005) is a revision of the Parallel Aligned Text of the Greek and Hebrew Bible, edited by Emanuel Tov. The Hebrew text has been collated with the BHS text/morphology in BibleWorks and includes an updated version of the textual notes in the original alignment. This is an essential tool both for New and Old Testament studies.

A Concise Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament:
Based on the Lexical Work of Ludwig Koehler and Walter Baumgartner
W.L. Holladay, editor
By eliminating biographical references and specialized technical information, Holladay created an English, abridged version of Koehler and Baumgartner’s Lexicon in Veteris Testamenti Libros that all students need to translate Old Testament passages. Some reviewers have called this the best Hebrew reference tool available.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Introduced in April 2004, the Holman Christian Standard Bible was created to provide a fresh rendering of God’s Word directly from the original languages. An emphasis was placed on combining an accurate translation with contemporary use of the English language and a clear, reader-friendly style.

NET Bible, First Edition
An innovative translation by evangelicals who sought to represent the meaning of Biblical texts as accurately as possible, the NET Bible features about 60,000 notes on textual criticism, lexical issues and exegesis.

Greek Apostolic Fathers
Gieniusz/Bushell
This new resource contains the Greek text of the Apostolic Fathers, with full morphological analysis by A. Gieniusz. Includes an English translation by Philip Schaff.

TEXTKRITIK des Neuen Testaments
Caspar Rene Gregory
A heavily-annotated bibliography of New Testament manuscripts up to the year 1909, including Tischendorf, Gregory and von Soden designations for the papyri, uncials, minuscules and lectionaries.

Greek Enchiridion: A Concise Handbook of Grammar and Exegesis
William G. MacDonald
The Enchiridion summarizes the fundamentals of Greek grammar and syntax in handbook format. It serves as a concise reference manual for anyone who has been introduced to Greek by an introductory textbook and is ready to work at translation and exegesis.

Old Testament Quotations in the New Testament
G.L. Archer & G.C. Chirichigno
New Testament verses quoting the Old Testament are brought together with parallel Old Testament and Septuagint citations and commentary.

Works of Philo (Greek Text, Morphology, and English Translation)
P. Borgen, K. Fuglseth & R. Skarsten
The Greek text and morphology of the Works of Philo are important resources for word and background studies. Updates to the Greek morphology may be downloaded for free as they become available.

New Living Translation, Second Edition
A vibrant translation created to capture the constantly-changing use of English language and idioms.

Targum Update
The Targums not available in the last version are now provided in BibleWorks 7.

Complete Jewish Bible
The only complete English version fully Jewish in style and presentation, following the Hebrew order of the Tanakh and using original Hebrew proper names.

Beginner’s Grammar of the Greek New Testament
by William Hersey Davis
A classical textbook in Greek morphology, Davis's work presents the precise eight-case system not often found today.

Bible Afrikaans, 1953

Bulgarian Bible

Castilian Spanish version from Herder Editorial, S.A., Barcelona

Die Bibel (German Herder Translation)

English Revised Version, 1881/1885

GOD’S WORD® translation

Grammar of Septuagint Greek
by F.C. Conybeare & St. G. Stock
Not only an indispensable reference resource, Grammar of Septuagint Greek is also an ideal reader for anyone wishing to study the Septuagint in the original language. A reprint of the standard Septuagint grammar originally titled Selections from the Septuagint, this invaluable volume includes: an extensive introduction to the origin, inspiration, date, supremacy, and Greek of the Septuagint; the grammar proper with major sections covering accidence and syntax; and extensive selected readings with in-depth introductions and full textual and grammatical notes——especially helpful for the student of New Testament Greek wishing to develop language skills through reading less familiar texts.

Greek New Testament Text of the Greek Orthodox Church

Metaglottisis modern Greek New Testament translation, with footnotes

Nueva Versión Internacional (NVI)

Polish Biblia Gdanska Bible, 1632

Portuguese SBP Modern Language Translation

Swahili New Testament

Willibrordvertaling modern Dutch translations, 1978 & 1995 editions

The Etheridge (1849), Lewis (1896), Magiera (2005), Murdock (1851) and Norton (1881) NT Peshitta Translations

#14 jarcher

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 02:23 PM

You can compare products and modules, but you cannot compare price.


As much as I love Accordance this is the simple truth of the matter. Bottom line, you will spend more on Accordance than Bibleworks. Whether or not that is valuable is another discussion. Does that mean that Accordance is over-priced? No. What does it mean then? It means that Bibleworks is significantly under-priced!

Jeremy

#15 jfidel

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 02:34 PM

As much as I love Accordance this is the simple truth of the matter. Bottom line, you will spend more on Accordance than Bibleworks. Whether or not that is valuable is another discussion. Does that mean that Accordance is over-priced? No. What does it mean then? It means that Bibleworks is significantly under-priced!

Jeremy


I think this is well stated. The two companies package completely opposite. BW has almost everything on one CD that it sells for one price that is a great value for everything you get. Accordance sells several core packages, but leaves the customer to decide which modules to add to their library. If you only wanted a core library, Accordance may be less expensive, since you can choose what you want. If you will need a significant original language library, comparable modules would be much more expensive in Accordance.

Granted, Accordance may be a preferable program with greater utility built into the modules. That will cost more, and the customer needs to determine value.

I suggest purchasing a smaller package to establish what is important to you. Since you are using a MAC, you should try Accordance as I think you will really enjoy using it.

#16 Billy

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 04:12 PM

Hi Billy, just to make sure we have some objectivity in this discussion, the $150 update includes the following in addition to program updates. Please note that BibleWorks is a great program and a great value. You can compare products and modules, but you cannot compare price.


Whenever I have upgraded any of my Accordance packages, there have always been modules added with the new version as well as enhanced functionality. Even the upgrade from 7 to 7.1 added functionality (for free). My only point was that you might want to take future costs into consideration, not to go into a feature by feature comparison. Believe me, I know how expensive it can get, but for me it has been worth it. I have just spread my cost over time by buying modules as I can. I think what it comes down to is what package works best for you in what you do. For me the power of the program's capabilities in doing complex searches quickly and easily is what I need. I hope everyone's input has been helpful. I agree with what others have recommended... start small & give the program a try.

Billy
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#17 jfidel

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 04:21 PM

Whenever I have upgraded any of my Accordance packages, there have always been modules added with the new version as well as enhanced functionality. Even the upgrade from 7 to 7.1 added functionality (for free). My only point was that you might want to take future costs into consideration, not to go into a feature by feature comparison. Believe me, I know how expensive it can get, but for me it has been worth it. I have just spread my cost over time by buying modules as I can. I think what it comes down to is what package works best for you in what you do. For me the power of the program's capabilities in doing complex searches quickly and easily is what I need. I hope everyone's input has been helpful. I agree with what others have recommended... start small & give the program a try.

Billy


Hi Billy,

BW includes resources and bibles with their upgrade for $150 and Accordance does not, so the $150 is not comparable with the $29. This does not mean I disagree with your point, just your example for comparison needed some clarification. For those requiring a large original language library the orice of BW is hard to beat. For a BW user that uses many of the modules converting to Accordance, it is a shock especially considering the investment already made.

Prices can be compared; value however depends on each customer and their respective needs. Accordance while more expensive appears to be able to support that with providing value to their customers.

#18 Billy

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 04:41 PM

I stand corrected on the upgrade cost. I upgraded my Scholar's Core Bundle and Library which gave me new modules. The program upgrade gave the new functionality. Upgrading was probably in the same price range.

Billy
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