Jump to content


Photo

Problems Searching LXX {=οἰκία <AND> =θεοῦ <NOT> θεοί}


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 Enoch

Enoch

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 494 posts

Posted Yesterday, 01:06 PM

I was looking for house [οἰκία] of God in the LXX, so I put in this string to avoid getting results for idols θεοί.

 

The word θεοί certainly does occur in the LXX.  But It would not cooperate with men when I tried this string:

 

οἰκία <AND> θεοῦ <NOT> θεοί

also I tried:

=οἰκία <AND> =θεοῦ <NOT> θεοί

 

But it refused to search, & gave me the dreaded non-cooperate drop-down menu with a list of words, none of them being θεοί.   I got the same result when I used quotes around θεοί

=οἰκία <AND> =θεοῦ <NOT> "θεοί"

 

I tried 

=οἰκία <AND> =θεοῦ <NOT> =θεοί

which yielded a different rebuke window, telling me like expected character(s) were missing, like matching quote mark.

 

Is this a bug? There must be some way to search & exclude θεοί.

 

BTW, the system also refused to search for οἰκία <AND> θεοῦ

 
BTW, I dearly wish I could stop that pop down menu from coming up.  If you just hit enter, it changes your search string when it was never asked to do that.

Edited by Enoch, Yesterday, 01:06 PM.


#2 Mike Thigpen

Mike Thigpen

    Bronze

  • Active Members
  • PipPip
  • 51 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Louisville, KY
  • Interests:Old Testament, Hebrew, ANE History, etc.
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted Yesterday, 01:50 PM

Enoch,

 

To exclude the terms you don't want, you have to make sure and search for an inflected form in the second half.  I ran this search and the results were limited to what you're looking for.

 

(=Οἶκος, =οἶκος) <FOLLOWED BY> <WITHIN 2 Words> "(=Θεοῦ, =θεοῦ)"

 

Hope that helps.

Mike


Edited by Mike Thigpen, Yesterday, 03:01 PM.

  • Timothy Jenney likes this

#3 Timothy Jenney

Timothy Jenney

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,567 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sunny Winter Haven, FL
  • Interests:a good cup of coffee, sci-fi, playing bass, listing to jazz and the blues, camping, fishing and the great outdoors
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted Yesterday, 03:00 PM

[chuckle] "rebuke window"

 

Enoch, I think most of us consider that window Accordance's attempt to be helpful! ;-)


Blessings,
"Dr. J"

Timothy P. Jenney, Ph. D.
"Lighting the Lamp" Host and Producer

 

Early 2011 17" MBP (8,3), 2.3 GHz Quad core, 16 GB RAM, Mercury 6G 480 SSD + 1.5 TB HD, OSX 10.10, Yosemite

iPhone 6 plus 64 GB iOS 8.1


#4 Ken Simpson

Ken Simpson

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,565 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney, Australia
  • Interests:Astronomy
    Archaeology
    Physics
    Hebrew and Greek
    Papyrology
    Orthopædic Surgery
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted Yesterday, 03:21 PM

Mike is correct, though another way you can do it is to search for the two words οἰκία and θεοσ and make sure that θεοσ is not in the inflected form you wish to exclude.

 

οἰκία <AND> θεοσ@-“θεοι”.

 

As Mike points out it would be good to use the  <FOLLOWED BY> <WITHIN 2 Words> restriction, or something similar. Or in syntax you could restrict it to being within the same phrase. (Of course there is no syntaxing available for the LXX - sorry)

 

remember the = sign asks for a specific lemma, in this case θεοί, which doesn’t exist. Just try inputting θεοί into the search bar on its own, and you will see what I mean.

 

to exclude the inflected form you enclose it in quotes.

 

so your search

 

=οἰκία <AND> =θεοῦ <NOT> "θεοί"

 

is almost correct, but won’t work because of two things.

 

First, there is no lemma θεοῦ. It’s the genitive masculine singular inflected form of θεος.

 

Secondly, while it gives the same results this time, logically what you are looking for is a verse where οἰκία occurs (you don’t need the = sign as there is only one lemma), and there is the word θεος (again the = sign is not required) and then a third term where there is not the inflected form θεοί, which could be the same word you searched for a moment ago (θεος) or it could be a completely new word in the verse.

 

By using Mike’s option or my option you are limiting the search to 2 words, and third word will not be found.


Edited by Ken Simpson, Yesterday, 04:40 PM.

  • Mike Thigpen likes this

Regards
Ken
Lead Australian Accordance Demonstrator

Administrator, Accordance Exchange

Assistant Minister, Summer Hill Church


#5 Enoch

Enoch

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 494 posts

Posted Yesterday, 09:18 PM

(=Οἰκία, =οἰκία<FOLLOWED BY> <WITHIN 5 Words> "(=Θεοῦ, =θεοῦ)"

 

Thanks a lot, gentlemen.  The one thing I will have to do though, is to also allow for preceded by since Greek can easily put the genitive "of God" before the oikia.

Is there a command that included preceded by & followed by?  like just "within X words"?

 

(=Οἰκία, =οἰκία) <WITHIN 5 Words> "(=Θεοῦ, =θεοῦ)"

I intend to try that.

 

Timothy, my beef with the rebuke window (LOL) is that it takes too much effort to get rid of, and it changes my search when I don't want it to do so.


Edited by Enoch, Yesterday, 09:21 PM.


#6 Enoch

Enoch

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 494 posts

Posted Yesterday, 09:32 PM

(=Οἰκία, =οἰκία) <WITHIN 5 Words> "(=Θεοῦ, =θεοῦ)"
 
Ι tried that, but it gave me again the rebuke drop down. No search.  Vot der dumboozle?

 

But this argument doesn't get Accordance rebuttal; it searches:

 

(=Οἶκος, =οἰκία) <WITHIN 5 Words> "(=Θεοῦ, =θεοῦ)"


Edited by Enoch, Yesterday, 09:45 PM.


#7 Abram K-J

Abram K-J

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,705 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greater Boston, MA
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted Yesterday, 09:32 PM

(=Οἰκία, =οἰκία<FOLLOWED BY> <WITHIN 5 Words> "(=Θεοῦ, =θεοῦ)"

 

Thanks a lot, gentlemen.  The one thing I will have to do though, is to also allow for preceded by since Greek can easily put the genitive "of God" before the oikia.

Is there a command that included preceded by & followed by?  like just "within X words"?

 

(=Οἰκία, =οἰκία) <WITHIN 5 Words> "(=Θεοῦ, =θεοῦ)"

I intend to try that.

 

Yes. WITHIN is a bi-directional command.

 

I, too, love "rebuke window," and will try to use it now as often as possible.


Abram K-J
Pastor, Writer, Freelance Editor, Youth Ministry Consultant, Blogger
Web: Words on the Word

#8 Daniel Semler

Daniel Semler

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,357 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted Yesterday, 09:53 PM

Hey Enoch,

 

  The attempt-to-be-helpful-dialog (aka rebuke) is for =Οἰκία which is not in the LXX with an initial cap.

 

Thx

D


Accordance Configurations :
 
Mac : 2009 27" iMac                 Windows : HP 4540s laptop
      Intel Core Duo                          Intel i5 Ivy Bridge
      12GB RAM                                8GB RAM
      Accordance 10.4.3.2                     Accordance 10.4.3.2 and Aleph 10.4.3.2
      OSX 10.9 (Mavericks)                    Win 7 Professional x64 SP1

#9 Enoch

Enoch

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 494 posts

Posted Yesterday, 10:02 PM

Hey Enoch,
 
  The attempt-to-be-helpful-dialog (aka rebuke) is for =Οἰκία which is not in the LXX with an initial cap.
 
Thx
D


Thanks Daniel; Now why pray tell does not Accordance just run the search with a message popping up for 2 seconds saying, "The word you searched for does not occur in the text as a capitalized word" -- and go on with the wedding?

As a matter of fact, I don't think that the ancient texts do have two fonts (lower & upper case) anyway.

Edited by Enoch, Yesterday, 10:06 PM.


#10 Enoch

Enoch

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 494 posts

Posted Yesterday, 10:06 PM

(=οἰκία) <WITHIN 5 Words> (=κυρίου)

Now that won't work either. And I have no idea why not.
My guess is that the = means it wants an exact lexeme/lemma. It worked when I used quotes instead of =. And I got:

Καὶ ἀπέστειλεν ὁ βασιλεὺς καὶ ἐκάλεσεν αὐτὸν πρὸς ἑαυτὸν εἰς οἰκίαν ασελισι τὴν ἐν οἴκῳ κυρίου·

Edited by Enoch, Yesterday, 10:14 PM.


#11 Daniel Semler

Daniel Semler

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,357 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted Yesterday, 10:12 PM

κυρίου is not a lexical form, its an inflected one. Check out this help page for information on this type of searching in Greek : http://accordancefil...ht=lexical form

 

(=οἰκία) <WITHIN 5 Words> ("=κυρίου") will work.


Accordance Configurations :
 
Mac : 2009 27" iMac                 Windows : HP 4540s laptop
      Intel Core Duo                          Intel i5 Ivy Bridge
      12GB RAM                                8GB RAM
      Accordance 10.4.3.2                     Accordance 10.4.3.2 and Aleph 10.4.3.2
      OSX 10.9 (Mavericks)                    Win 7 Professional x64 SP1




3 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 3 guests, 0 anonymous users