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MT/LXX parallel database


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#1 danzac

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 01:40 PM

I use the parallel database quite frequently and would like to see an increase in the Details that can be extracted from a search. The most obvious I think, would be a concordance of the words found, as well as an Accordance of the aligning words. So if I search for "seed" in Hebrew and get all my results, I would like to see in a table of concordance in the Details window what Greek words are paired with the Hebrew.

Danny

#2 Robb Brunansky

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 01:56 PM

Danny,

That is a great idea! I often use this db, and I think the potential is amazing. I'd like to see it tapped more.
Soli Deo Gloria,
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#3 Helen Brown

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 02:31 PM

Unfortunately you are talking major programming here, for one specific tool. We have so many other new features planned, should we really postpone them even more to work on this? I don't think so.
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#4 jpkang

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 02:47 PM

A couple of suggestions:

1. To ease analysis with the current implementation, set Show: to Paragraphs or Add Titles after searching.

2. The MERGE command (Help gives a fairly clear description of how it can be used with MT/LXX) is indispensable.

A couple observations:

Your example shows that there are going to be quite a few different expressions involving ZR' (with preceding and following words and other morphemes like conjunctions, prepositions, suffixes, etc.). Where there is not a 1:1 correspondence (quite frequent in this case), Accordance wouldn't always be able to extract the semantic equivalent (assuming one is even explicit!) in either direction.

One other idea: in Show: Paragraphs mode, you can copy and paste the text (with Unicode export on) to a text editor like BBEdit, select all the lines, then use Text > Sort Lines... and then Text > Process Duplicate Lines... In this way, I was able to eliminate duplicates from the 274 found paragraphs for this example (remembering that a line is a "paragraph" in MT/LXX), leaving me with 165 combinations. You'd then need to go through those by hand to really figure out how many truly different Greek reflexes there are. I wish there were a more satisfying computational shortcut!

Given the analytical challenges, I would refer to the Hatch-Redpath Concordance with T. Muraoka's Hebrew/Aramaic Index to the Septuagint (see this review by Richard S. Hess for an explanation). Google Books currently has fascicle 2 of Hatch-Redpath (e.g., 300 pages of nearly 1900) available...
J. P. Kang, Ph.D. (Bible)

#5 Robb Brunansky

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 03:07 PM

Obviously you shouldn't shelve other new features you're working on to focus on this very specific tool. On the other hand, it would be nice to see more of its potential realized. For instance, building into this tool's browser what BBEdit is able to do would be a great start.

I'm not a programmer, so I don't know what's involved in that, but I think the ideas here are good to keep simmering on the backburner.
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Soli Deo Gloria,
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#6 danzac

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 10:01 AM

Maybe I am not quite understanding what is involved here, but isn't it at least feasible to ask that the details for these searches be on par with the rest of the modules in Accordance? "Analysis" and "Concordance" are standard issue in the Details button throughout Accordance except here.

I do understand that the more fancy stuff which I lust after may involve too much and put stuff other stuff on hold, but being able to concord and analyze a search in the database would speed the process of sifting through the results. For now, I'd just like to see the MT/LXX parallel come up to Accordance "standards".

JP, I realize there are not always one to one equivalents, but I would not want Accordance to interpret the data for me, just put it in an easily understandable presentation. It would mean taking the results in the "paragraph view" and recognizing all the exact equivalents and tabulating them or concording them.


And this database (appearing in its various forms in different places) is recognized as one of the major important tools for LXX research. It is also invaluable for understanding Greek translation practice for the NT as well. While I don't want other things to be necessarily 'put on hold', it deserves to be on the list.
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#7 Helen Brown

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 10:29 AM

The reason is the difference between Texts and Tools in Accordance. Texts are all one language, only two fields, the reference and the content. Tools have multiple fields and languages, and are much more complex. The powerful features you want have been designed for Text modules, as these are usually the focus of research. They do not exist for Tools which are usually not studied in their own right. The MT/LXX is a tool, though I agree that it is an important database, and features such as the MERGE and the Details were developed with it in mind.
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#8 danzac

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 11:53 AM

One more thing in regards to the MT/LXX database Helen (or whoever's listening):

Is it going to be updated to the more recent revision of the CATSS database (Tov and Polak)?

Danny




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