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Is the user tools edit problem fixed in version 11?


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#1 Marco79

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 12:54 AM

This is so annoying. We have had to deal with this for so long (I think since version 7). The red "T" that you click to create a place mark in your user tool gets lost when you edit your work. Now I know that many are using another program to write their user tools and then pasting into the accordance user tool edit window. That is not a work around that is a mess. 

 

The beauty of writing in accordance is that you can have your scripture references and click to them while creating your work. Switching back and forth between two programs to edit your user tools is just not right.

 

Why offer this option if it is not reliable? Now, I just figured out that the red "T" gets lost when you are doing the spell check. Sheesh! I have had to deal with this for so long. I love you guys, but this is very frustrating. 

 

The million dollar question is..., is this problem fixed in version 11?

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

Marco


Edited by Marco79, 11 December 2014 - 02:03 AM.

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#2 Larry Wing

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 12:15 PM

I can't say I've ever noticed this problem but then I haven't used User Tools extensively.  I'm on v11 now and edited an existing User Tool and the Title ("T" in edit mode) remained along with formatting after updating. 

 

I must be missing something because I couldn't do a spell check as the action is grayed out so I couldn't check to see it the Title disappeared after doing a spell check. 

 

I add text direct to my User Tool and don't use any external programs to copy/paste into the tool.

 

Accordance 11 on Windows.



#3 Greg Terry

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 04:20 PM

The best way is to format the text in a Word Processor or text editor and then import it into Accordance. That way you bypass all the User Tool editor wonkiness. It really doesn't take long at all to format chapter headings.


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#4 Marco79

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 05:46 AM

Using a word processor would be fine if I were just preparing something once and pasting it just once. But the way I use the user tools is to build a research tool on a particular subject. Let's say you are studying temptation and sin. There is going to be a lot of scripture references, a lot of subject headings, and there will be a lot of editing.

 

It is very distracting to build the work in a separate program and then every time you want to read a scripture link you have to switch back to accordance and type the scripture reference. This wouldn't be a problem if you were not trying to do a thorough study. As you know, if you are trying to write about most any subject in the bible there is going to be a lot of scriptural references. I'm not a preacher that only one time prepares a subject in a week and then preaches on it. I want to start a study on something in God's Word and be able to go into it and edit as He speaks to me. These lesson's may go on for months or years, and there can be two dozen tile "T" that get mixed up and have to be reset.

 

If you look at the way the whole "T" thing works, it is set up for doing a large work. The titles thing is just the same as the rest of the program. When you click the title list in any of the other volumes accordance offers it takes you to the chapter of the research tool you are reading. Accordance has set up the user tool to work like one of their other research volumes. The program it self is set up to give you the impression that you can write your own tool and make a chapter heading and click on it to bring it up just like all the other volumes in accordance. 



#5 Greg Terry

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 04:08 PM

Hello, Marco:

 

Unfortunately, many of the bugs you are experiencing have been around for many years despite repeated requests from the user community. Fixes to the User Tool never seems to be on the priority list.

 

I wasn't suggesting that your work be kept permanently in the word processor. Also, I would avoid pasting into a user tool. That isn't the best way to create a user tool.  I would use the import and/ or merge function under the File-Userfiles menu item. Create your notes in a word processor. Format chapter titles with the Heading1 format. Save it as an html file and use that to import or merge into Accordance.   If I understand what you are doing, here is a suggestion:

 

After creating your notes for a session in an external word process using the process outlined above you can merge those notes into an already created user tool. Just make sure that when you select files to be merged, the 'master' file containing all your previous notes is the first listing and the file you are merging is the second entry.

 

Once this is done, (most) all scripture links should work. Unfortunately, if you wish to link a whole chapter it is not recognized by Accordance, but can be linked manually in the User Tool editor. Also, the auto-link will not work if you use a period as the chapter and verse separator, despite the fact it works everywhere else like that. It requires a colon as the chapter verse separator to work properly. To really use the Import Function and get a good quality module, a knowledge of html is very helpful.


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#6 RobM

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 09:44 PM

I for one use the User Tools EVERY DAY for all of my research, school work, and class notes (in some ways similar to how you use them). I use them as the initial collection point of my data for everything I do. That said, I have never experienced the problem you describe and I've been using the User Tools like this for the past 6.5 years.

 

The main recurring 'bug' that I experience is that the text within the User Tool randomly justifies to Center rather than to Left. It's a quick fix to simply open the tool to the proper location, select all, then click left justify, but it's still a little annoying to deal with.

 

I know this doesn't have to do directly with the problem you're dealing with, but maybe it helps with diagnosis??

 

-Robert



#7 Greg Terry

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Posted 13 December 2014 - 10:27 PM

Robert:
 
The centering issue is another long-standing bug that is related to issues in the User Tool editor. The centering issue seems to take place after one has created a fairly big file. The bolding issue is more related to  importing and perhaps pasting. The html importer seems to introduce that when it shouldn't.
 
The main reason I use Accordance's competitor as much as I do is that it is a snap to make user modules in it. Making user modules should not be difficult or only part way given to the end user. The purpose of a product is to be useful to the end user not frustrating.
 
The biggest improvement to the User Tool would be the ability to import a word processing file directly. This is the #1 feature that would make Accordance more useful and WAY more valuable to the end user. I hope to live long enough to see the day when it may be implemented, but I doubt it.
 

 


 
 
Greg

Edited by Greg Terry, 13 December 2014 - 10:28 PM.

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#8 Marco79

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Posted 14 December 2014 - 04:16 AM

Robert,

I would like to think that I am experiencing some sorta of fluke or something which could be remedied. But the lost paragraph headings in the user tools has been happening for a very long time. It doesn't happen every time I write.  As I mentioned above I recently noticed it happen after a spell check. 

 

I am surprised you have not experienced this. Do you create a lot of chapter marks with the red "T" thing? Do you edit it and do spell checks to your user tools?

 

As far as the work around that Greg is suggesting, how does that work if you are writing a large research subject? There is a lot of editing and changing things. Do you import it every time you write, or do you wait until you are nearly done. That still seams like a lot of work. Not to mention you are still switching between programs to read the scriptures in context.


Edited by Marco79, 14 December 2014 - 08:48 PM.


#9 Lorinda H. M. Hoover

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Posted 14 December 2014 - 06:46 AM

Marco,  I haven't seen the disappearing Ts either, but I don't use spell check very often if at all in Accordance.  When I can find the time (two funerals this week), I will do some testing and see if I can reproduce it by using spell check.

 

I have run into the centering bug.  Like use, my primary use of User Tools does not lend itself to working in another application and importing.

 

Lorinda


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#10 Steve King

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Posted 14 December 2014 - 02:08 PM

On occasion I have noticed an issue with headings in a user tool. Not sure if the 'T' goes missing, I think there have been occasions when this has happened, but I've also seen it lose formatting after editing a user tool. It still has 'T' but does not display as the correct style.

 

Anyway, yes it would be a great leap forward if editing user tools was improved. Having brought a new format to user notes maybe improvements in user tools are not far away.

 

I haven't done a lot of user tool editing lately so I cannot comment on whether this still happens in 11, but my assumption is that it still does this.


Edited by Steve King, 14 December 2014 - 02:09 PM.

Steve King Running Accordance 11.0.2 on:

Mac 10.9.5 (Mavericks), mid-2010 Macbook Pro, 4Gb RAM

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#11 RobM

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Posted 14 December 2014 - 03:21 PM

Greg,

 

Glad to know my problem is already known.

 

As for importing from word processing files, I haven't felt the desire to do that in a lot of years. I guess this is because I do all my initial work in User Tools rather than in a word processor. So any import/export that I do is FROM Accordance TO a word processor. I suppose I've never really seen the point of importing data into User Tools (at least for my work/workflow) because, for me, User Tools are not the place for a polished piece. I consider it to be a sophisticated note taking platform, not a word processor (I believe that Accordance folks have never suggested that a User Tool is or should be thought of as a word processor).

 

I know this is not how everyone uses/wants to use User Tools, but this is how I use them and think about them, FWIW.

 

 

Marco,

 

Yes, I do create a lot of 'T' chapter headings as well as sub headings ('1' and even down to '4'). The ease of assigning these chapter headings (and being able to see them in the browser window to the side of the Tool) is a BIG reason I use User Tools so often. I will say, however, that I don't think I have ever used the spell check feature in my User Tools. I think there are 2 reasons I don't: 1) I work primarily with ANE languages... I do all my initial transliterations, translations, and notes in the User Tools, transliterating and translating Hittite, Luwian, Ugaritic, and Akkadian. Because I type so much transliteration, it is all but pointless to use spell check (almost everything would be flagged as incorrectly spelled). 2) I don't really care if there are spelling errors in my User Tools because when I end up either exporting to a word processor or I am typing something in a word processor on the basis of the User Tool, then I correct the spelling errors then (regardless of when the spelling errors are corrected, I always do a careful reading in the word processor specifically looking for errors of any kind).

 

So perhaps the bug of losing the 'T' chapter headings is in fact related to using the Spell check feature? Have a lot of other people noticed this as the cause for the problem? I suppose we'll hear from Lorinda when she's able to check.

 

-Robert



#12 Marco79

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 02:11 AM

I guess we can conclude that the spell checker is the culprit, and it doesn't look like the problem has been addressed in version 11.

 

I just need to pray more for the accordance team  :-)



#13 Lorinda H. M. Hoover

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 10:03 AM

Finally had time to test this in Accordance 11.0.3, and I can definitely reproduce it--sometimes.  Here are the steps:

 

-Open a User Tool (preferably one with lots of heading markers in close proximity)

-Click in the User Tool and hit command-U to open a User Tool Edit Window

-scroll through edit window to get a sense of where the heading markers are

-Go to the Search menu and choose "Spelling..."

-correct/skip misspelled words as necessary

-when done with spell check, scroll through the tool and look for missing/misplaced heading markers (Ts, 1s, etc.)

 

In one test, many of the markers were shifted on me.  In another they disappeared completely.  In a third, they were fine.   I used a different User Tool the third time.  Maybe that was the difference?

 

Also, when the markers shifted, those that shifted to a line that began with a Scripture link could not be removed.  The only solution was to cut the text on that line and paste it into another line.

 

Lorinda

 

PS: This is a Mac specific issue, as spellcheck is not (yet?) supported on Windows.


Edited by Lorinda H. M. Hoover, 19 December 2014 - 10:04 AM.

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#14 Marco79

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 01:59 AM

Lorinda,

Thank you for letting us know for sure about version 11. Wow! This has been such a burden to me. I like to write a lot and I want to use the "T" marker but it is such a hassle trying to reset all your markers. 

 

We need to try and keep this issue alive so that they will deal with it some time. Spell check is such a basic function. At least now I know what is doing it for sure. Thanks again.

 

Marco



#15 Lorinda H. M. Hoover

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 08:17 AM

You're welcome, Marco.  I wish i'd been able to reproduce it a little more consistently, but at least we've got a set of steps for the Accordance staff to try.  


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#16 Marco79

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Posted Today, 12:27 PM

This problem is so consistent with me. Nearly every time I do a spell check I loose some "T" title marks. I understand that it is not as consistent for others so I have two things I want to add which I am doing that may contribute to this occurring.

 

When I click the "T" to create a title I always make the text line bold and up the text size to 14. 

 

So, that should be included in any tests to duplicate this problem.

 

Also, I noticed that when it kills my titles it is always after the title chapter that I was doing the spell check in never before. 

 

I am not the greatest speller, there is usually four or five mis-spelled words when I do the spell check.

 

With these things in place I can not imagine the problem not consistently happening.

 

I have changed computers over the years and updated accordance and this problem had been following me.

 

Thanks for your input






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