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Luther's Works


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#1 jarcher

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 12:14 AM

I believe that this has been discussed before (can't find the thread) but I'd really love to see more of Luther's works available for Accordance.

Peace to you,

Jeremy

#2 Helen Brown

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 12:39 AM

We have been trying hard for many years to license these works, nothing settled so far.
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#3 pandakruon

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 12:59 AM

I'll second this. It would be a great addition.

I already own it for Logos... http://www.amazon.co...m...9587&sr=8-1

So a crossgrade would be nice too.

#4 ToddPeperkorn

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 01:36 PM

Amen to that. This would be a HUGE addition.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rev. Todd Peperkorn
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#5 Glen Piper

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 12:15 AM

Amen to that. This would be a HUGE addition.



Agreed.

However, I've gone back & forth a few times with Paul McCain (at CPH) about this, and his stance has been that only Logos/Libronix is a market big enough to be worthy of CPH's attention. Unfortunately, with the recent release of Logos's alpha of their native Mac version, I don't think that this will change any time soon, given that he's always touted Libronix via virtualization as better than native Accordance.

From a comment he left on my comment on his blog: "Frankly, and sadly, Accordance is a real clunker compared to Libronix and the Mac version of the Libronix has now even further left Accordance in the dust. I think the Accordance people have to be feeling very, very nervous right about now."

:(

-ghp
--
In Christ,
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#6 R. Mansfield

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 12:18 AM

However, I've gone back & forth a few times with Paul McCain (at CPH) about this, and his stance has been that only Logos/Libronix is a market big enough to be worthy of CPH's attention. Unfortunately, with the recent release of Logos's alpha of their native Mac version, I don't think that this will change any time soon, given that he's always touted Libronix via virtualization as better than native Accordance.

From a comment he left on my comment on his blog: "Frankly, and sadly, Accordance is a real clunker compared to Libronix and the Mac version of the Libronix has now even further left Accordance in the dust. I think the Accordance people have to be feeling very, very nervous right about now."


Personally, I would think that someone in McCain's position would find better things to do than to take potshots at other companies. His words are petty at best and uncharitable at worst. And they do not make good sense on a number of levels.

First, although I don't think that anyone can offer a fair evaluation of Libronix for the Mac yet (since it only this week was released in alpha form), I don't see how it leaves Accordance in the dust since every time I've tried to use Libronix for the Mac, it has crashed on me.

But let's leave all the Accordance vs. Logos stuff aside for now. There will be plenty of time for that later, and it would be more appropriately done somewhere besides the Accordance forums (or the Logos newsgroups!). The real tragedy of McCain's comment is that it betrays poor business strategy.

I've used a Mac as my primary platform for ten years, and I've had Accordance running on my Macs from the very beginning. I began with version 3.5 in 1998 and even then it was already a very mature product (version 1 dates to 1994). I would dare say that Accordance is one of the most streamlined and well-thought out programs on the Mac platform today. And it has survived whereas a lot of programs--even good programs--simply ceased to be developed after a number of years.

The point of my accolades? In my ten years I've regularly purchased accordance modules and have accumulated a very large and significant library of electronic texts. The value of having these texts is not that they are all on my computer--as wonderful as that is--but rather in that they work together in one interface.

Therefore, it doesn't matter if Libronix 1.0 for the Mac was available right now. It doesn't matter if I can run Libronix texts now in Parallels. The reality is that I am invested in Accordance heavily--not just in money spent on modules, but in time learning how to best use the program. And guess what--there are thousands of other folks like me.

So that brings us back to McCain, Concordia, and Luther's works. I'd be delighted to have Luther's works in electronic form, specifically in an Accordance module(s). But for me, Luther's works is not a must have purchase. So if McCain wants to make me choose between having Luther's works in Libronix vs. not having them at all, then I end up not having them at all.

Although I have made a handful of minor Libronix purchases in the past, I'm not going to start investing in major texts. It doesn't matter whether these texts are available to me in Parallels or natively in OS X. They don't interface with my previous significant investment in other Accordance modules. Thus a native Mac app for me in the end is not really any different from running it in Parallels. And I really don't care to do that either. As I said, there are thousands of customers such as myself and if McCain and even the folks at Logos naively think we will jump at Libronix just because a Mac native version is released, they are sadly mistaken. This is not something that is as easy as switching from Mac Word to iWork Pages. It's a much more significant investment of time and money to seriously use something like Accordance as long as I and a lot of other people have done.

Thus McCain's rhetoric displays a poor business decision on his part. If he were to license Luther's works to Oak Tree, it would be a win-win situation for him and Concordia. The bulk of the preparation of these modules would fall on the employees at Oak Tree. They would do all the work and Concordia would receive its royalties for very little additional investment--if any. But because McCain chooses to strut his position and hold fast to one electronic avenue for Luther's works, he gets none of my money. Hmmm...what's the better business decision: some of my money or none of my money? It doesn't take an MBA to figure that one out.

So are the "Accordance people" (as McCain calls them) nervous? Well, they shouldn't be. There are a lot of folks such as myself who have been using Accordance so long that it has become synonymous with the very reasons we've stuck by the Macintosh platform for the long haul. These kinds of values run deep, and we aren't as easily wooed away as some (perhaps even the folks at Logos) might imagine.

So McCain can hold out and take potshots at potential customers if he wants to, but in the end his business plan is flawed. And in my opinion the folks he answers to at Concordia should be concerned about his narrow vision and failure to make available his company's holdings in as many avenues as possible.

Edited by R. Mansfield, 20 March 2008 - 01:01 AM.

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#7 R. Mansfield

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 01:05 PM

Looking at Concordia's website, McCain is not the CEO, but rather Bruce Kintz is. McCain was interim CEO for a number of years.

Regardless, since there is a personal contact page for Bruce Kintz on the Concordia website, I wonder if there would be any value in Accordance users contacting Kintz directly requesting Luther's works to be made available to Oak Tree.

Kintz needs to understand that there is no monetary risk on Concordia's part since Oak Tree would have to prepare the etext for its use in Accordance. Kintz also needs to know that there are a number of loyal Accordance customers who have no desire to run to Libronix simply because there is now a Mac version.

Kintz's contact page can be found here:
http://www.cph.org/c.../brucekintz.asp

My hunch is that McCain has been left to make the decision and perhaps Kintz is unaware of the issues involved or the demand from Accordance users.

Edited by R. Mansfield, 24 March 2008 - 01:07 PM.

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#8 David Nehring

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 03:02 PM

Thanks for the info. I have sent Bruce Kintz an email as you suggested.
David Nehring
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#9 R. Mansfield

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 05:10 PM

Thanks for the info. I have sent Bruce Kintz an email as you suggested.


I just sent a rather lengthy email to Kintz myself. I felt he should know not only that Accordance users would like to have access to Luther's works, but he should also know how McCain has been representing Concordia over the last few days with his negative rhetoric. Personally, I can't see how insulting and thus marginalizing potential customers is good for business.

Kintz now has the information on McCain and can deal with it as he wishes. I would recommend that anyone else reading this who would be interested in an Accordance version of Luther's Works simply contact Kintz and express your interest. I feel it would be important to stress (if it is truly how you feel) that you would prefer Luther's Works in an Accordance module and do not care to buy it for Libronix simply because that will eventually be released on the Mac platform.

Rick Mansfield

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#10 pandakruon

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 01:07 PM

Sent an email to Mr. Kintz,

I basically said:

I own a copy of Luther's Works on CD, purchased when I had a PC, but didn't use it much because I didn't have time to learn Logos.

I "got a Mac", and bought Accordance.

All three platforms (Bibleworks, Logos, Accordance) are excellent programs, but each require a significant time commitment to be able to take full advantage of them.

I don't have the time to learn a second platform (Logos).

Therefore, it doesn't matter to me that Logos is available on Mac, because I've committed to Accordance.

Please license Concordia works to Accordance, the demand is here and increasing.

#11 pandakruon

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 02:36 PM

Oh well...

Ironically, though I sent an email to Mr. Kintz, guess who replied back?

Paul McCain replied,

"Thanks for your letter to CPH regarding your interest in having Lutherís Works on the Accordance platform. We will not be offering Lutherís Works in any platforms other than Libronix."

Did Kintz even read my letter? McCain also responded that Logos was easy to use and that I'd be happy to know that they had a Mac version coming out.

The point of my letter was that Logos wasn't "easy" to use, PC or Mac version. Neither is Accordance or Bibleworks! They're "easy" if all you're looking for is the ability to perform basic searches, but I expect much more from a platform.

Did anyone hear back from Mr. Kintz?

#12 R. Mansfield

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 03:00 PM

Did anyone hear back from Mr. Kintz?


I emailed him yesterday and have yet to hear back. The response you got makes one wonder if McCain isn't screening all of Kintz's email. And considering that I complained about McCain in my email to Kintz, then he most assuredly wouldn't have passed it on!

Rick Mansfield

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#13 David Nehring

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 05:21 AM

I have heard nothing.
David Nehring
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#14 arnehalbakken

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 11:42 PM

I have had the competitor's version of Luther's works for many years but would love to have them in Accordance.

 

Have any efforts been made recently with Concordia to see about licensing? (I know efforts in the past have not gone anywhere.)

 

One would think that they would appreciate more income because of a larger market.






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