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#1 jfmaddocks1

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 05:00 PM

Good Day Everyone:

I am a fairly recent convert to the Mac world and have in my past PC life been a Logos user. I have invested quite a lot in this program and as such I am in a bit of a quandary about what to do for a good Bible program now. I know that Logos is in Beta for Mac and I also know I could use an emulator on my Mac to run the Windows version of the program. I really don't want to go with the latter option.

I guess what I am looking for are some opinions on why I should add Accordance to my Bible study software tools? Also, I am not trained in ancient languages so what would be the best package to purchase, should I chose to do so?

Thanks for all your help!

John
Toronto, ON
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Toronto, Ontario, Canada
http://worldevangelist.blogspot.com/

#2 jwritebol

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 05:58 PM

Tough given that you have spent so much on the Logos version. If I were you at this point, I would probably work with the Logos beta for Mac (I know I'm a turn-coat) with your existing library and try out some of the demos of Accordance.

Here's the one reason I think Accordance shatters Logos though - it's wicked fast! The window is right there, I plug in my search text or word and BOOM! it's given me the results. Logos treats every book like a PDF and slowly churns its way through them to find the particular search parameters and then give results. Accordance is instantaneous. So that's why I think Accordance is the more superior software. Also I can see Logos in the future being a processor hog, but with Accordance guys like me who are running an old G4 powerpc are doing great...

Those are my two cents. I would get the Standard Library 8 at first and go from there. It does a great job and is very affordable.

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#3 jfmaddocks1

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 05:54 PM

Thanks Jeremy,

Your input is very much appreciated. It does seem like the beta version of Logos is running very quickly now too. Speed for me is not a huge selling feature though. What besides speed makes it a must have program?

Any input on this is truly appreciated.

All the very best from Toronto,

John
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West End Church of Christ
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
http://worldevangelist.blogspot.com/

#4 Lorinda H. M. Hoover

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 09:38 PM

I don't have Logos, so I can't offer you a comparison, but here are some of the things I love about Accordance:
-It's designed for the Mac by people who know and love the Mac platform. Thus it is consistent with how other truly native mac programs work.
-The ability to choose the translations you want--either as free modules when purchasing a package or separately. Many other programs force you to purchase completely pre-set packages, and in my case my primary English translation (the NRSV) has usually only been available in the most expensive packages of other providers.
-A consistent paradigm across the program for how things are handled.
-The tools and the interface are focused on exploring and studying the Biblical text, rather than on being an electronic library. These aren't mutually exclusive concepts, but I find it much easier to really plumb the depths of the text with Accordance than I ever did with Quickverse for this reason. (Granted, my experience with Quickverse was 8 years ago).
-Responsive developers and technical support staff at Oak Tree. Several features I have requested have appeared in program updates and upgrades over the last few years. And they are great at answering questions about how to do something.

It isn't necessarily an either/or choice between Logos and Accordance. There are several members of these forums who use both.

I would suggest you do one or more of the following to get a better feel for Accordance:
-Try the free trial offer
-Buy the Starter Package for a more extensive trial run. The purchase price is credited toward your purchase of a more extensive package.
-Get to an Accordance seminar and see it in action (although there may not be any soon in your area)
-Find an avid Accordance user in your area and ask him or her to demonstrate what they love about it.

Lorinda
Running Accordance on:
Mac 10.9 (Mavericks)
iOS 7 (iPad)
Windows Vista Home Premium

#5 jfmaddocks1

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Posted 06 November 2008 - 08:24 AM

Thanks Lorinda,

I think your idea about having someone in the area demonstrate the program is a great idea. Is there anyone in the GTA willing to show me the ropes?

All the very best of the day!

John
John F. Maddocks, Jr.
Evangelist working along with all the brethren of the
West End Church of Christ
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
http://worldevangelist.blogspot.com/

#6 Dick Roberts

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Posted 06 November 2008 - 09:35 AM

I too switched from PC to Mac about a year ago when I purchased a Macbook. I have both Logos and Accordance. With the dual core macs I can run Logos using VM Fusion (XP side) and Accordance on the OS X side. This works very well for me and allows me to maintain the many Libronix books I have purchased over the past few years. Logos runs exceptionally well using VM Fusion. The Accordance interface is much easier to use and is faster. The Logos side however, allows me to use their syntactical databases, which is about the only thing Logos provides which Accordance does not yet. So I don't see any reason to purchase the additional Logos for Mac which they are currently trying to develop. I think once you try Accordance you will find it an exceptional program. And did I say it was fast!
Dick Roberts

#7 Robb Brunansky

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Posted 07 November 2008 - 12:53 AM

John,

I'll throw in my two cents. Accordance is centered around the text. When you open Accordance, the first thing you see is the biblical text. It doesn't lead you away from the text to secondary resources. However, it does make all your secondary resources easily accessible, and it allows you to organize them any way you want. You can get to any resource from any resource in Accordance, making the program truly work for you. The original language support is unmatched, not only in the quality within the program, but also from the help you get on the forums. I've actually had Accordance staff help me solve problems concerning the textual apparatus in the Hebrew Bible, problems seminary professors couldn't solve! Support overall is the best in the industry. Constant updates to the program, most of them free (all of them free if you keep your library/scholar's suites up to date too).

Another feature that I really like about Accordance is it allows me to work the way I want to work in my studies. Not every research project is the same, and I need software that allows me to customize my work flow for a given project, not one that finds and puts in my way every resource in my digital library (**cough** Logos **cough**). For example, right now I am working on two projects, one that is related to systematic and biblical theology, and one related to translation technique in the Septuagint. As you would guess, these projects require different approaches, and Accordance allows me to define the best approach for my research. I've found that Logos really only works well if you decide to pattern your study after its way of performing tasks. That just doesn't work for me or, I would imagine, most users.

Accordance is scalable, like Lorinda said. You add what you want when you want. You don't have to buy a bunch of stuff you'll never use that just clutters up your library (or, in the case of Logos, slows down performance). Maybe it's just me, but I've looked at the Logos packages, and I would venture to say that a large portion of what they include is only included so they can say, "We give you X number of resources!" and you feel like you got a great deal; meanwhile, all those resources are collecting digital dust because they're not worth the hard disk space they're store on. You might as well use that space for photos, videos, music, or something else useful, right? And why pay for stuff you're just going to delete? It just doesn't make sense.

I could go on and on, but that's probably a fair summary of why I would encourage users to go with Accordance and wean themselves off of Logos if they're already using it. I hear you can get a decent return on eBay for your Logos library. :)
Soli Deo Gloria,
Robb Brunansky

#8 Ed Cross

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Posted 07 November 2008 - 07:06 AM

John,

Just become a Bible software junkie like some of us and buy everything you can!

I came over from the Windows side and have never regretted doing so. As far as what to look at in making your decision regarding Bible software for the Mac, Accordance has been a native Mac app since it's beginning. This gives it a head start on Logos regarding the Mac. Also, Logos development for the Mac is outsourced, it is something they do not something they are. The Accordance developers live, breath and sleep Accordance on the Mac.

The coming Mac version of Logos is a stripped down version and for a number of years will be the red-headed step-child to it's Windows counterpart. The version 1 release from all discussions will not have personal notes or any way to add user created modules. Will I purchase the crossgrade for $59 bucks so I can use what I've already invested in natively? Sure. But it cannot replace Accordance in a feature for feature comparison nor it's Windows counterpart.

Running Logos in Virtual mode will also require additional investment for the VM software about $79 and for a Windows Version that's installable, an additional $120+ depending on what you can find OEM. So, you are looking at investing an additional $200+ to run logos in Virtual Windows environment. Yes, I am running it in a VM, remember - Bible software junkie!

Regarding Accordance development, I have found them, unlike many software companies, to be very sensitive to their user's desires, if they can be. I do not think you would regret investing in their product, I know that I have not.

#9 djaneb

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 03:52 PM

I'm a new Accordance user but also had been a Logos user from way back. I have been using the Logos for Mac beta since it was in alpha - it was fine in lots of ways, but to be honest I never really mastered how to personalise it properly. Although it is for the Mac it is a bit like it is still thinks it's on a PC instead of a Mac. Also, the forums indicated that Logos on the Mac would be some time catching up with the Windows version.

So having moved to Mac about 18 months ago I had found myself rarely firing up Logos, even under Parallels. So I tested Accordance, and decided to go with that because it's already stable and has good Greek support.

It's been only a couple of days since I finally made the purchase and got working but I already know I have made the right decision for me.

For many switchers the decision is probably going to be pragmatic - how much can I afford and what are my needs? The other thing that comes into it for me is that since switching to Mac there are Mac ways of doing things which I have got used to. Every so often I try out a bit of software and even though it is written for the Mac it feels like PC - there's some indefinable something in there that makes something a Mac programme and for me, Accordance has it. So I would never criticise or bag Logos - I just prefer this.

Deb

#10 jfmaddocks1

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 03:56 PM

Thanks very much Deb. I sure do appreciate your input. I have a similar feel towards the Mac version of Logos.

All the very best,

John

BTW, I am still hoping that someone has Accordance in Toronto and would be willing to let me see it in action.
John F. Maddocks, Jr.
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http://worldevangelist.blogspot.com/

#11 Fr. Rich

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 05:06 PM

Another consideration is that Accordance user support is the best in the world. Helen Brown even called me on a Saturday afternoon when I was having a problem and she figured that I was working on a sermon and needed help right away. The software is great and the assistance is even greater.
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#12 jackcav

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 05:56 AM

Robb

Since this is an Accordance Forum, I will not answer your objections to Logos on a point-by-point basis, but you are not correct in most of your statements. I see Accordance criticized on the Logos forums by people who obviously have only taken a cursory look at Accordance, and that appears to be what you are doing with Logos. Most of your objections to Logos are simply incorrect.

Accordance and Logos are both excellent products. If you can afford both, then by all means, use both! If I could only afford one, then I would choose Accordance.

Jack

John,

I'll throw in my two cents. Accordance is centered around the text. When you open Accordance, the first thing you see is the biblical text. It doesn't lead you away from the text to secondary resources. However, it does make all your secondary resources easily accessible, and it allows you to organize them any way you want. You can get to any resource from any resource in Accordance, making the program truly work for you. The original language support is unmatched, not only in the quality within the program, but also from the help you get on the forums. I've actually had Accordance staff help me solve problems concerning the textual apparatus in the Hebrew Bible, problems seminary professors couldn't solve! Support overall is the best in the industry. Constant updates to the program, most of them free (all of them free if you keep your library/scholar's suites up to date too).

Another feature that I really like about Accordance is it allows me to work the way I want to work in my studies. Not every research project is the same, and I need software that allows me to customize my work flow for a given project, not one that finds and puts in my way every resource in my digital library (**cough** Logos **cough**). For example, right now I am working on two projects, one that is related to systematic and biblical theology, and one related to translation technique in the Septuagint. As you would guess, these projects require different approaches, and Accordance allows me to define the best approach for my research. I've found that Logos really only works well if you decide to pattern your study after its way of performing tasks. That just doesn't work for me or, I would imagine, most users.

Accordance is scalable, like Lorinda said. You add what you want when you want. You don't have to buy a bunch of stuff you'll never use that just clutters up your library (or, in the case of Logos, slows down performance). Maybe it's just me, but I've looked at the Logos packages, and I would venture to say that a large portion of what they include is only included so they can say, "We give you X number of resources!" and you feel like you got a great deal; meanwhile, all those resources are collecting digital dust because they're not worth the hard disk space they're store on. You might as well use that space for photos, videos, music, or something else useful, right? And why pay for stuff you're just going to delete? It just doesn't make sense.

I could go on and on, but that's probably a fair summary of why I would encourage users to go with Accordance and wean themselves off of Logos if they're already using it. I hear you can get a decent return on eBay for your Logos library. :)



#13 Robb Brunansky

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 01:04 PM

Robb

Since this is an Accordance Forum, I will not answer your objections to Logos on a point-by-point basis, but you are not correct in most of your statements. I see Accordance criticized on the Logos forums by people who obviously have only taken a cursory look at Accordance, and that appears to be what you are doing with Logos. Most of your objections to Logos are simply incorrect.


Jack,

My comparisons of Logos and Accordance (not objections to Logos) were all personal opinions from my own experience. I qualified my comments with "I've found that..." and "Maybe it's just me..." Other people's (including yours) mileage may vary. If your experience with Logos has been different, and you feel that it would be helpful to share it in response to the OP's question, then post what your experience has been.

Obviously, there are people who use Logos instead of Accordance because they find it to be superior in their opinion, just as I find Accordance superior. That doesn't make me right and them wrong, or them right and me wrong. It just means our experiences and preferences are different. This is kind of like me saying I like reading outside in Phoenix in July when it's 115 degrees (which I usually do enjoy at my in-laws from the patio by the pool) better than reading outside in the woods at a cabin when it's 65 degrees, and you saying my criticisms of the woods are incorrect. I'm not wrong for enjoying a nice, dry heat by the pool more than a cool day in the woods (maybe I'm weird, but not wrong). Different preferences, different experiences. You and I might disagree on how useful Logos is for biblical studies, but I think it's going too far to say that either one of us is wrong or incorrect.
Soli Deo Gloria,
Robb Brunansky




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