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Searching for Immanuel in Hebrew


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#1 Darrell Thatcher

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 11:37 PM

The Hebrew "Immanu el" occurs three times in Isaiah - in 7:14, 8:8 and 8:10. In BHS-W4 the Hebrew text for each of these looks identical. However, they are translated and tagged differently - Isaiah 7:14 and 8:8 are translated as a proper name "Immanuel" while 8:10 is translated "God is with us".

Since the Hebrew for all three is identical, there should be some way of searching the text which will bring up all three references.

However, I have not found a way to do this. The searches I do only bring up 7:14 and 8:8, and do not show 8:10. Which is a major omission.

Does anyone know how to do this?

#2 Robb Brunansky

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 12:26 AM

Because 8:10 is a different grammatical construction than 7:14 and 8:8, the tagging is different. You can over come that by selecting the phrase in 7:14/8:8, right-clicking, and choosing "Search For Lemma." Then take re-cycle off the search tab that opens. Go back to the original tab, control-click in 8:10 on the same phrase, and do the same search. Then, hit command-d to duplicate a tab. In the search argument entry box, enter the following:

[LINK BHS-W4 2] <OR> [LINK BHS-W4 3]

That will combine the two lemma searches into one search and show you all the results in one tab. I have pasted a screen shot below. (Nevermind, evidently the uploads directory is not yet available.)

Another option would be simply to search for that phrase in the BHS-GBS, since it is untagged and will find that exact phrase without considering any tagging information. I might be forgetting an easier way to do this in the tagged text, but if I'm not, then a possible feature request would be an option to ignore tagging in a tagged text. You can get around this now with a character search, but for a phrase with this many characters, that clearly would be inefficient.
Soli Deo Gloria,
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#3 Darrell Thatcher

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 06:31 AM

Rob

Thanks for your prompt response. I don't have BHS-GBS so I can't try that option yet.

But the real problem is, what if I did not know about Isaiah 8:10. I discovered it by accident - not by a search in Accordance.

I should be able to discover Isaiah 8:10 from Isaiah 7:14 and 8:8 since textually they are identical.

I suppose we should be able to turn off the tagging and search the actual text.

My fear is what other similarities am I missing in all sorts of other places.

Let's see if anyone else can shed light on this.

Darrell

#4 Helen Brown

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 07:57 AM

The logical way to do this is with a search for the inflected form, by selecting the phrase and option-clicking on Search. However, in this case even that does not work since the proper name is not split into particle + suffix as the phrase in 8:10 is. My solution, having recognized that issue, is to search for the inflected phrase, copy it, add an OR command, paste the phrase and remove or add the space in one case. This does find all your cases.

"‏עמנו אל" <OR> "‏עמ נו אל"

Of course, you need to know that this is the case in order to find them.
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#5 Lorinda H. M. Hoover

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 08:04 AM

I tried doing an inflected form search (hold down the option key when clicking on the Hebrew Text button), but that didn't do it, either. Isaiah 8:10 is treated differently because it's not marked as a proper name.

Lorinda

....And Helen beat me to it. :D

Edited by Lorinda H. M. Hoover, 08 December 2008 - 08:05 AM.

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