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Page numbers in commentaries and books


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#1 danzac

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 10:04 AM

I know this note has been sounded, but I need to bring it up again to see if there is something that can be done about it. The lack of page numbers in some modules is a hindrance. It is a hindrance to me as I am working, and it is also a hindrance to wider acceptance of electronic editions of books. A small case in point
While working on my dissertation, I quoted from John Nolland's NIGTC commentary on Matthew from my Accordance module. After the sweet bliss of finding it with full-text search and a simple cut and paste of the citation into Mellel, dismay set in as I realized the NIGTC module ships without page numbers. How does this translate? Well, I have to trudge down to the library, find the book, and find the citation. Which also means that I am no longer citing an Accordance electronic addition of the book, but the printed versionó and I like to cite Accordance whenever I can! I want to promote electronic editions as valid editions of printed books. What was initially a time saver is now actually taking longer than if I would just have bought the hard copy.

I know from past discussions that the reason for this is that the publishers do not supply the page numbers to Accordance. This leaves the Accordance team to do the work, which I hate to place on their shoulders as they are developing some awesome modules. But something has to be done.
Another option, perhaps, is for some of us users to organize some sort of "signed" letter by users to the publishers, asking them to supply page numbers for these modules so Accordance can update them.

I want Accordance to be the best it can be, and I really do think that electronic copies of books, especially like commentaries, are just plain better than hard copies. I recommend Accordance modules of books over hard copies to my students when I can. But no page numbers are poking a pin into my balloon.

I also think that in the interim it would perhaps be good for Accordance to signal whether or not modules come with or without page numbers. I likely would have purchased different modules had I known NIGTC didn't come with page numbers, or purchased a hard copy of the commentary instead.

Cheers, Danny

#2 Mike Thigpen

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 10:44 AM

Danzac,

Depending on the format you are using for your citations, and the type of source you are referring to, you may not need to page number. The SBL format, for instance, does not require the page number to be cited for electronic editions of reference works with a corresponding print edition (7.3.12). Could that formatting be applied here?

Mike

#3 Semstudent

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 10:59 AM

Danzac,

Depending on the format you are using for your citations, and the type of source you are referring to, you may not need to page number. The SBL format, for instance, does not require the page number to be cited for electronic editions of reference works with a corresponding print edition (7.3.12). Could that formatting be applied here?

Mike



This is a great topic (again)... On the facebook forum there is a question about using Accordance for publishing. Though I am but a lowly student in my senior year, I have found the same problem as the original poster, I am required by the institution (using Turabian writing style) to provide page numbers. I have also been told that, in order to publish, I will have to have page numbers. I, too, have found some frustrations with citing page numbers and have done the run to the bookshelf to find the hard copy to cite. I think it depends on your context as to "needing" page numbers in an electronic citation, but for me it is required. FYI.
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#4 Helen Brown

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 12:05 PM

There is really no point in approaching publishers, they either supply us the etext they have or they don't and we get it elsewhere.

Here's a radical suggestion: technically qualified people can volunteer to insert page numbers into the source texts for us (perhaps in exchange for modules they need). That would provide a needed service to the Accordance public, and enable them to earn some modules. The work is not simple, though. It requires great attention to detail and (from personal experience) is best done as team of two, one to check the print copy and the other to edit the text.
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#5 danzac

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 01:44 PM

Danzac,

Depending on the format you are using for your citations, and the type of source you are referring to, you may not need to page number. The SBL format, for instance, does not require the page number to be cited for electronic editions of reference works with a corresponding print edition (7.3.12). Could that formatting be applied here?


You are rightó for stuff like lexicons and to some extent grammars (with clear sectioning) this isn't as necessary. But commentaries it is a must.

#6 danzac

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 01:55 PM

There is really no point in approaching publishers, they either supply us the etext they have or they don't and we get it elsewhere.

Here's a radical suggestion: technically qualified people can volunteer to insert page numbers into the source texts for us (perhaps in exchange for modules they need). That would provide a needed service to the Accordance public, and enable them to earn some modules. The work is not simple, though. It requires great attention to detail and (from personal experience) is best done as team of two, one to check the print copy and the other to edit the text.


All right, now we are getting somewhere! I think I'm technically qualified, what type of text would we be working with? I'm willing to do some for sure, and I know of a few students who I could work with to get something like this done. Any other volunteers? What texts need page numbers? Here are the ones that come to my mind....

NIGTC
NIBC
Pillar
Context of Scripture
DSS studies
Meaning in Text

#7 R. Mansfield

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 05:36 PM

I'd be willing to help. I'm in the same boat as Danny, needing to get page numbers in my dissertation. I end up using Accordance, but having to quote the print edition.
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#8 danzac

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 08:57 PM

I just remembered that ADC's little in-house library has all of the NIBC. I have two sharp MA students who are Accordance users who would definitely be up for doing the work with me for modules payment.

Helen, let me know how to start this process.

#9 thegoodfight

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Posted 19 April 2009 - 10:15 PM

So..how is this process going. I am working on a paper for Seminary and would love to have the page numbers. I'd be glad to help as well; however, I'm not exactly technologically savvy :)

#10 Helen Brown

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 02:58 AM

Working on a post about two modules right now. Waltke and Metzger are on the website for the Check for Updates to download. More modules are in the pipeline.
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#11 RobM

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 11:09 AM

Working on a post about two modules right now. Waltke and Metzger are on the website for the Check for Updates to download. More modules are in the pipeline.


It sounds like you'll have more information soon... I have Waltke and did the Check for Updates but it didn't show up as having an update available.

#12 Helen Brown

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 12:46 PM

Oops, forgot one step. Please try again now.
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#13 RobM

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 01:33 PM

Oops, forgot one step. Please try again now.


I ran the Check for Updates and it said there were no downloadable updates available, but that there were some (including Waltke) with new media. When I clicked "Open Webpage" it took me to the page to purchase the module new.

Am I missing something? Is there a way to just download the update that I haven't found?

Edited by RobM, 20 April 2009 - 01:36 PM.


#14 Helen Brown

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 02:04 PM

Sorry, this has been a crazy day. I think we finally have it right.

Nope: one more thing but the webmaster needs to fix it.

I think we have a workaround for now.
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#15 RobM

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 03:05 PM

Sorry, this has been a crazy day. I think we finally have it right.

Nope: one more thing but the webmaster needs to fix it.

I think we have a workaround for now.



I did the Check for Updates again and it worked beautifully! Now I can finally sell my print copy of Waltke!

Just out of curiosity, what other modules are in the pipelines to receive page numbers? no need to give any timelines, just a list of modules in the works. Is Context of Scripture one of them?




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