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#1 macmike

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 03:20 PM

Hi I just had a LOGOS Rep call me. Told me the Mac version of LOGOS has come out. Has some interesting books included and pretty good pricing. No my question. Give me some reasons why I shouldn't scrap my Accordance and go with LOGOS. If I could afford it I would upgrade my Accordance and buy their gold as well. Seems like neither program has the same books in them. Some they have of interest to me are: Keil & Del., Bakers Bible Atlas and Tyndale Dictionary.

Dr. Mike Hughes
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#2 Robb Brunansky

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 04:56 PM

Dr. Hughes,

Accordance has Keil and Delitzsch, several Bible Atlas modules, and many Bible Dictionaries (check out the IVP set or the Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible). That's not to say that everything in Logos is available in Accordance (or vice versa), but generally, Accordance has comparable tools in every category.

If you're an Accordance user, I'm not sure why you need to be sold on Accordance (again). Besides possibly some resource availability, why would you want to use Logos rather than Accordance? To me, your question is like some Mac users who ask, "Why shouldn't I go back to Windows?" The general response is, "Go ahead. You'll be back."
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#3 Greg Terry

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 05:48 PM

Dr. Hughes:

One word on the subject: interface.

The logos interface is atrocious in my opinion. While I wish Accordance had more library options like Logos, they would do me absolutely no good if I had to use a clunky interface like Logos to use them. I have used the Windows version of Logos and it cannot begin to compare with the ease of use featured in the Accordance program. Not to mention that you will spend far more money buying Logos resources than you would spend on Accordance. The value we have in the Accordance program is unsurpassed. As Robb alluded, there may not be the same exact resource available, but in most cases there is a comparable one. It seems that the Accordance team is really trying to acquire additional resources and have been very willing to listen to customer's needs.

I see no compelling reason to switch to Logos . . . Accordance is my choice in Bible software.
Peace!

Greg


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#4 jwritebol

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 07:25 PM

Dr. Hughes...

If you look back at past forum discussions about Logos and even some of the past entries in on the Accordance blog you will notice that already several of the processes in Accordance are just simply quicker (meaning in fewer steps) to do than they are Logos.

Also, if you have already invested in Accordance wouldn't it be poor stewardship to just "scrap it?" I think Accordance is the best out there in the Bible Software landscape.

Consider also this... you are getting Logos first version of their Mac software, where as with Accordance they are at version 8...

One more thing to think about. Logos is made by PC people, even the Mac version... Wouldn't you want Mac people making Mac software for Mac users? I do. Hope that's helpful.

Jeremy
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#5 Dick Roberts

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 09:14 AM

I use both Accordance and Logos, both PC and Mac versions. The Logos Mac version is pretty stripped down and could not survive on its own in its present "beta" form. That said, however, the PC Logos has the one advantage of syntactic databases. If you view some of the videos on their site, you will see that syntactical searching allows for searches which cannot be done (easily) in a lexical search. I still use Accordance as my main Bible software program. There are times however, when I turn to Logos for a syntactic search. The other thing I like about the Logos interface is that their in-text cross references are hyperlinked to a popup and do not require a second window to be open and synchronized.

My church allows me the privilege of both programs (although keeping both up to date is cost prohibitive) and thus I can see the strengths of both in the real world. I am hoping that Accordance will be able to obtain licensing for a syntactical database in the near future. I believe it would greatly strengthen an already excellent program.

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#6 David Lang

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 04:09 PM

Dr. Hughes,

I'm curious to hear more about what the sales rep told you. What specific advantages did he say Logos Mac has over Accordance?
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David Lang
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#7 David Lang

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 04:25 PM

Richard,

You described the Logos Mac program as a "beta." Are you under the impression that it is still in beta or are you implying that the current release is no better than a beta?

You say that the current Mac version could not survive on its own, and I think that's a very insightful way to put it. I think many Logos Mac users are expected to get around its limitations by running the Windows version under virtualization. Whether intentional or not, this assumption seems to lead to a blurring of the lines between the Windows and Mac versions, so that Mac users assume they're getting features in the Mac version which simply aren't there. You mentioned using the Windows version of Logos for the syntactic databases. Are there things you specifically launch the Mac version of Logos for?
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#8 Dick Roberts

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 07:28 PM

David,
The Mac Logos is not technically a beta release, but its functions are greatly reduced. It does not have the syntactic capabilities of the Windows version and thus I use it only to access the Yale Anchor Dictionary (which I have in Libronix format). I use the Windows version under Fusion for syntax searches.
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#9 Fr. Rich

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 08:57 AM

If I had known how things would work out, I would have bought the cheapest Logos version and then bought certain commentaries and perhaps the Lexham tools (HDNT). As it is, I use Accordance for everything and Logos serves as a reference library full of commentaries. It is easy to copy commentator's comments into the notes in Accordance.

Searches, original languages and the like, I do in Accordance.

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#10 macmike

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 02:59 PM

The LOGOS rep. told me there once you buy a LOGOS Library that there is no cost for updates. Only cost after initial purchase would be if I went from Silver to Gold. I told them how right now I have version 7 and to go to 8 I have to pay to upgrade he said that wouldn't happen in LOGOS. I do find Accordance website confusing as to what package is best for my needs, thus I have stuck on a Intro library because of the confusion.

Dr. Mike Hughes

#11 macmike

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 03:01 PM

Dr. Hughes,

Accordance has Keil and Delitzsch, several Bible Atlas modules, and many Bible Dictionaries (check out the IVP set or the Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible). That's not to say that everything in Logos is available in Accordance (or vice versa), but generally, Accordance has comparable tools in every category.

If you're an Accordance user, I'm not sure why you need to be sold on Accordance (again). Besides possibly some resource availability, why would you want to use Logos rather than Accordance? To me, your question is like some Mac users who ask, "Why shouldn't I go back to Windows?" The general response is, "Go ahead. You'll be back."



The only package on Accordance I have right now is the Intro Library. The site is a little confusing as to what package I need to get for my needs thus have just been on that package. I know the Logos Scholar Silver has Keil & Delitzsch in it.

#12 Helen Brown

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 04:03 PM

Our Library upgrades are the best value at the highest levels as they add many new materials along with the updated program and installer.

I would recommend that you upgrade to Library 8 Intro level for $69 and then add-on the upgrades to Premier level for another $200. This will include Keil & Delitzch, the ESV with Strong's numbers, the tagged GNT Textus Receptus, Holman Bible Dictionary, and much more. You can compare the levels on this page. You will be able to add two more $30 English Bibles of your choice.

If you want to get deeper into the Greek and Hebrew you can add the Scholar's Introductory level for $149 less the $30 MixNMatch coupon.

If you can tell us what you specifically want, it will be easier for us to advise you. For example, if you only want Keil & Delitzch you can add it right now to your Library 7 for $80. Our sales staff will be glad to help you, and let you know about our ministry discount and payment plan. I recommend that you call the office and discuss your needs with them. They excel at helping people find the most cost effective package for their needs.
Helen Brown
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#13 Lorinda H. M. Hoover

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 04:04 PM

While I don't find the site confusing, I know that others do. If you are having trouble figuring out the best package to get for your needs, it is a good idea to make a list of the resources you want and then call or e-mail the Oak Tree sales staff. They are very good at helping customers figure this out, and they don't push you to spend more than your budget.

I've not used Logos, so I can't comment on which is better.

Lorinda

----and Helen beat me to it!

Edited by Lorinda H. M. Hoover, 02 February 2009 - 04:05 PM.

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#14 macmike

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 11:05 AM

Our Library upgrades are the best value at the highest levels as they add many new materials along with the updated program and installer.

I would recommend that you upgrade to Library 8 Intro level for $69 and then add-on the upgrades to Premier level for another $200. This will include Keil & Delitzch, the ESV with Strong's numbers, the tagged GNT Textus Receptus, Holman Bible Dictionary, and much more. You can compare the levels on this page. You will be able to add two more $30 English Bibles of your choice.

If you want to get deeper into the Greek and Hebrew you can add the Scholar's Introductory level for $149 less the $30 MixNMatch coupon.

If you can tell us what you specifically want, it will be easier for us to advise you. For example, if you only want Keil & Delitzch you can add it right now to your Library 7 for $80. Our sales staff will be glad to help you, and let you know about our ministry discount and payment plan. I recommend that you call the office and discuss your needs with them. They excel at helping people find the most cost effective package for their needs.



Here are some ideas of specifically what I would like access to with Accordance or LOGOS -

Thayers Lexicon
Vincent word studies
Wuest Word Studies
A.T. Robertson
Baur, Arndt Ginrich Lexicon
Daniel Wallace Greek Grammar
Hebrew Lexicon
Interlinear Literal Translation of the Greek New Testament
Lexham Hebrew-English Interlinear Bible
ESV English-Greek Reverse Interlinear of the NT
ESV English-Hebrew Reverse Interlinear of the OT
Word Study N.T.
Word Study O.T.
NAS Greek Dictionary
NAS Hebrew Dictionary
Dictionary of Biblical Languages (Hebrew, Aramaic OT)
Syntax of the Moods & Tenses in NT Greek
Biblical Hebrew Reference Grammar

Tyndale OT series
Bible Speaks Today
Bible Study Textbook series
Keil & Delizsch Commentary
Matthew Henry's
Barnes Notes Old & New
Clarke's
Pulpit Commentary
Bible Knowledge Commentary
Expositors Bible Commentary
Word Commentary
New International Greek Testament Commentary

Anchor Bible
ISBE
Naves Topical
Manners and Customs
Halley's Bible Handbook
Nelson's Bible Dictionary
Unger's Bible Dictionary
Easton's Bible Dictionary
Tyndale Bible Dictionary
Harper's Bible Dictionary
Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible
Zondervan Bible Ency.
Baker's Bible Atlas

Life & Times of Jesus (Edersheim)
Sketches of Jewish Social Life (Edersheim)
The Temple (Edersheim)
New Manners & Customs of the Bible
Early Church Fathers

English Dictionaries
Merriam-Webster
American Heritage Dictionary

Analytical Outline of Books of Samuel, Kings & Chronicles (Crockett)
Synopsis of the OT (Jackson)
A Harmony of the Gospels (Robertson)
The All Series - All the Men, All the Women, All the Prayers, and etc.

I realize this isn't that exhaustive as to what I would want this happens to be on my shelves that would be good to have access to on a computer.

Dr. Mike Hughes

#15 David Lang

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 04:02 PM

Dr. Hughes,

Below I've dealt with each of the modules you've listed and indicated where they are available in Accordance.

Thayers Lexicon (included in Library Premier and any level of Scholars)
Vincent word studies (Library Standard or Premier)
Wuest Word Studies (not available in Accordance)
A.T. Robertson (if by this you mean his Word Pictures, Library Premier)
Baur, Arndt Ginrich Lexicon (separate add-on, $150 or $249 when bundled with HALOT Hebrew lexicon)
Daniel Wallace Greek Grammar (separate add-on, $40)
Hebrew Lexicon (several included in Scholar's levels, HALOT available as bundle with BDAG)

Interlinear Literal Translation of the Greek New Testament
Lexham Hebrew-English Interlinear Bible
ESV English-Greek Reverse Interlinear of the NT
ESV English-Hebrew Reverse Interlinear of the OT


We don't offer interlinears, but you can accomplish the same things with our various Strong's numbered texts like the KJVS, ESVS, and NAS95S. Key number highlighting lets you put the tagged Greek text in parallel with one of these Strong's texts and highlight the corresponding words.

Word Study N.T. & Word Study O.T. (not available in Accordance)
NAS Greek Dictionary & NAS Hebrew Dictionary (included in Library Standard and Premier)
Dictionary of Biblical Languages (Hebrew, Aramaic OT) (As I understand it, this is a very basic lexicon developed for Logos)
Syntax of the Moods & Tenses in NT Greek (included in Scholar's Standard or Premier)
Biblical Hebrew Reference Grammar (Is this a specific title, or a category? We have several Hebrew reference grammars, including Gesenius, Jouon-Muraoka, Ross, and Waltke)
Tyndale OT series (not available in Accordance)
Bible Speaks Today (separate add-on, $115)
Bible Study Textbook series (not available in Accordance)
Keil & Delizsch Commentary (included in Library Premier)
Matthew Henry's (abridged included in Library Intro, complete included in Standard and Premier)
Barnes Notes Old & New (NT Notes included in Library Standard or Premier)
Clarke's (included in Library Premier)
Pulpit Commentary (not available in Accordance)
Bible Knowledge Commentary (included in Library Standard or Premier)
Expositors Bible Commentary (separate add-on, $129, not available from Logos)
Word Commentary (separate add-on, on sale for $399)
New International Greek Testament Commentary (separate add-on, $499)

Anchor Bible (if you mean the dictionary, available as a separate add-on, $269)
ISBE (included in Library Premier)
Naves Topical (you already have this, it's included in Library Intro)
Manners and Customs (there are several Manners and Customs titles, we have the one by Matthews included in Library Standard or Premier)
Halley's Bible Handbook (not available in Accordance)
Nelson's Bible Dictionary (not available in Accordance)
Unger's Bible Dictionary (coming soon)
Easton's Bible Dictionary (you already have this, it's included in Library Intro)
Tyndale Bible Dictionary (not available in Accordance)
Harper's Bible Dictionary (not available in Accordance)
Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible (not available in Accordance)
Zondervan Bible Ency. (if by this you mean the Pictorial Encyclopedia, this is included in the Zondervan Scholar's CD, and it's not available for Logos)
Baker's Bible Atlas (our interactive Atlas is far superior to any static Atlas text, but we do also have IVP's New Bible Atlas and will soon have the Holman Bible Atlas)

Life & Times of Jesus (Edersheim)
Sketches of Jewish Social Life (Edersheim)
The Temple (Edersheim)


All these, along with Edersheim's Bible History of the Old Testament, are included in Library Premier.

Early Church Fathers (separate add-on, $129, also includes Schaff's History)

English Dictionaries (We offer the 1913 Webster's in Library Standard or Premier)

Analytical Outline of Books of Samuel, Kings & Chronicles (Crockett)
Synopsis of the OT (Jackson)
A Harmony of the Gospels (Robertson)


These and other arrangements of parallel passages are all included in every Accordance package as our Parallel databases. You already have them.

The All Series - All the Men, All the Women, All the Prayers, and etc.


All the Men and All the Women are included in Zondervan's Personal Growth CD-ROM. It costs $49 and includes a number of other resources. As far as I'm aware, the vast majority of such Zondervan resources are not available in Logos.

I would say a combination of the Library Premier and some level of the Scholar's will get you the vast majority of the resources you've said you want. Most of the other resources you mentioned can be puchased as add-ons, and most of the resources we don't offer have comparable equivalents in Accordance. I hope this helps.
Sincerely,
David Lang
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#16 Rick Bennett

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 07:26 PM

Biblical Hebrew Reference Grammar (Is this a specific title, or a category? We have several Hebrew reference grammars, including Gesenius, Jouon-Muraoka, Ross, and Waltke)


This is a specific intermediate Hebrew grammar. It has been brought up on the forum before. Jouon-Muraoka and Waltke would be a step up.

It may also be worth pointing out the IVP Essential Reference Collection. The dictionaries included in it are, in my opinion, a higher caliber than the few mentioned above which we do not currently have.

Rick Bennett
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#17 Abram K-J

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 07:56 AM

This is an old thread, and Biblical Hebrew Reference Grammar has been requested/suggested more recently. I also recall from a recent forum post that grammars may be a big task/time-consumer for Accordance to produce. Just wanted to put my two cents in for BHRG if/as things settle down and developers/staff are able to take on another (grammar) module.



Dah! And old thread, and badly named/placed. Not sure how to change that or post this in a more appropriate location.


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#18 Greg Terry

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:05 PM

Since my earlier post things have changed dramatically for me, I have seen great value in Logos, especially the Personal Book Builder and the Passage Guide. Logos has become my primary Bible software and Accordance is secondary.


Peace!

Greg


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