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#1 vr8ce

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 12:52 AM

I'm a BibleWorks user, trying out the Accordance demo and working my way through the online training DVD.

As a BW user, I'm used to a whole lot more detail in the BW equivalent of Instant Details, e.g. parsing of the word (second person feminine, etc.), display of TWOT entry for OT word, BDAG entry for NT word, etc.

Is there a way to accomplish that in Accordance without having to search on each word? I tried to answer my own question through playing with the demo and watching two hours of the DVD, but I haven't been able to even come close.

Also, I turned on paragraph display in the demo, but it doesn't seem to matter (there are only breaks at the chapters). Is that the extent of the paragraph display, or are the demo texts not paragraph-"tagged", or is there something else I have to do to get paragraph display?

Thanks!

Edited by vr8ce, 20 April 2009 - 12:54 AM.


#2 Lorinda H. M. Hoover

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 06:59 AM

For fuller parsing information in the Instant Details Window,
-go to the Accordance menu and choose Preferences.
-In the Preferences window that opens, click on Instant details
-choose the items you want to appear

I don't know of a way to add TWOT or BDAG definitions to the Instant Details window--those entries are long, so I wouldn't think they would fit. Are you already seeing the glosses? If not, you can turn those on in the same Preferences pane.

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#3 Sean R.

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 07:00 AM

The information displayed in the Instant Details box depends on the text or tool you are using. If you have a tagged English text (such as KJVS, ESVS, or NAS95S), the Instant Details box will show Strong's numbers and lemmas. If you have a grammatically tagged original language text (such as GNT-T, LXX, or BHS-W4), the Instant Details box will display complete parsing information for each word. Accordance offers many grammatically tagged texts, but I suspect that the demo version you are using does not include any grammatically tagged texts.

As for displaying lexicon entries in the Instant Details box, as far as I'm aware that is not possible.

I'm sure in short order you'll get a response regarding the paragraph display issue.

Welcome to Accordance! I hope you'll choose to stay.

Ah, looks like someone else beat me to the punch—and with more helpful information. I had forgotten how easily one can customize what information is displayed in the Instant Details box.

Edited by Sean R., 20 April 2009 - 07:04 AM.

Sean Reed

#4 RobM

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 10:29 AM

I'm a BibleWorks user, trying out the Accordance demo and working my way through the online training DVD.

As a BW user, I'm used to a whole lot more detail in the BW equivalent of Instant Details, e.g. parsing of the word (second person feminine, etc.), display of TWOT entry for OT word, BDAG entry for NT word, etc.

Is there a way to accomplish that in Accordance without having to search on each word? I tried to answer my own question through playing with the demo and watching two hours of the DVD, but I haven't been able to even come close.


From what I've seen in the BW interface, you cannot replicate it exactly in Accordance. The biggest difference is not being able to see BDAG, TWOT, or HALOT, etc in instance details.

What you can do, however, to make your Accordance workflow look like BW is to have two workspaces open and tile them (in the drop down menu Window-Arrange-Tile Windows or cmd-i), one with your Bible text and another with your desired lexicon (BDAG for NT, TWOT or HALOT for OT). You then need to set the lexicon to "Recycle Contents" (from the drop down menu go to Window-Set-Recycle Contents (or simply cmd-k). Now when ever you triple-click a word, your lexicon will do two things: 1. it will look up and highlight the word you triple-clicked and 2) it will look up and highlight the reference from where you clicked (it will only highlight the passage if it does in fact appear in your lexicon's entry). # 2) is especially helpful in saving time while writing a paper. When you look up a word in BDAG, you not only see how BDAG defines the word, but also how the editors interpreted the passage you are working on (i.e., by seeing which usage they classify your passage under). Because the passage reference is highlighted is very easy to just quickly scroll through to find it.

So, this is not exactly like BW, but something similar can be created (as far as layout is concerned). And the added feature (i.e., #2 above) makes up (in my opinion) for the things that BW does that Accordance doesn't.

As you consider Accordance, I think you will notice that there are little things you would be giving up in leaving BW but also other little things that you would be getting for the first time in Accordance. It will be hard for you to compare and contrast at this point because you have not learned Accordance well enough (yet) to see all the little things that Accordance can do and BW can't or things that Accordance may do better or easier. Right now, you know BW a lot better and are looking for BW in Accordance. I encourage you to learn Accordance as well as you can to more ably make an informed decision on which set of "little things" you prefer as well as which interface and "big things" you prefer.

One "big thing" I can point out is that historically Accordance has tended to be the first in coming out with new features that only later do BW or LOGOS end up adding (this of course is a generalization and BW and LOGOS are doing some of their own innovative things). For example, last May, with the release of Accordance 8, Accordance added the INFER search which enables uses to search for phrases in one text (e.g., Matthew 2), in another text (e.g., the Twelve). When performing this search, the user can look for very precise phrases or can build in ambiguity to allow for variation in word order or for added or lost words. Accordance was the first Bible software program to create and release such a search. But, BW did follow along and in January of this year and released the newest version of BW that included a search function that does something very similar if not the exact same thing (the reason for my uncertainty is that I have not experimented with this function in BW, I was briefly shown it just before a class by a classmate). Note the elapsed time of eight months.

Some of the Accordance people could give you more details on their history of creating new search functions that have not been used before. Accordance has a good record of innovation.

Well, this post is already too long :rolleyes:
Please ask more questions as you consider Accordance. I've been very impressed with not only the responses by Accordance staff, but also by other users on this forum. They are a great resource.

Edited by RobM, 20 April 2009 - 10:41 AM.


#5 David Lang

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 01:19 PM

In Accordance, the Instant Details Box is designed to give you enough information to keep you working through the text without interruption: parsing info, a brief gloss, etc. We know other programs will display whole lexicon entries, and that can certainly come in handy. But there are downsides to that approach which we think outweigh the convenience. That's why we haven't followed suit.

What are the downsides?

1. You have to devote a large portion of the screen to instant details. In order to show whole lexicon entries, you have to have a large window devoted to showing information about whatever the cursor passes over.

2. That large portion of the screen is constantly flashing with new information. All of that constant flashing is distracting and visually fatiguing, and it can be caused by the most minute movements of the cursor.

The Accordance instant details box is also constantly flashing with new information, but by keeping it small and neatly tucked away at the edge of the screen, you don't really notice it until you actually look there for instant info.

Another way some programs (not BibleWorks) present instant information is in a floating tooltip which appears beside your cursor. The problem with this approach is that the instant information is still accosting you when you don't want it, and even worse, is actually obscuring the text underneath. With this approach, the user must constantly move his cursor off to the edges of the screen to get rid of the tooltips and view his text unobstructed. Again, by keeping the instant information in a consistent and unobtrusive location on screen, Accordance avoids those problems.

As I hope you can see, we've actually given a lot of thought to how (and how much) instant information is best displayed. Rob's suggestion of setting up a recyclable lexicon window beside the text is probably the best workaround, and the advantage is that this window is only updated when you tell it to be (by triple-clicking).

As for the paragraph display, the GNT-TD text does have paragraph breaks. I'm not sure why the KJVSD does not, because the full version of the KJVS does have them. It all depends on whether the text you're viewing has been tagged with the paragraph breaks. Most texts have been, but a few, like the Hebrew Bible, have not.

I hope this helps.
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#6 vr8ce

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 07:52 AM

In Accordance, the Instant Details Box is designed to give you enough information to keep you working through the text without interruption: parsing info, a brief gloss, etc. We know other programs will display whole lexicon entries, and that can certainly come in handy. But there are downsides to that approach which we think outweigh the convenience. That's why we haven't followed suit.

What are the downsides?

1. You have to devote a large portion of the screen to instant details. In order to show whole lexicon entries, you have to have a large window devoted to showing information about whatever the cursor passes over.

2. That large portion of the screen is constantly flashing with new information. All of that constant flashing is distracting and visually fatiguing, and it can be caused by the most minute movements of the cursor.

The Accordance instant details box is also constantly flashing with new information, but by keeping it small and neatly tucked away at the edge of the screen, you don't really notice it until you actually look there for instant info.

Thanks very much for the reply, David. I'll note two things:
1. I've been using BW for six years, and devote little more screen real estate to my analysis window than Accordance does to the ID window. I didn't say anything about being able to see the entire lexicon entry -- you're obviously familiar with BW, so you know that window scrolls. Even so, I see the information I need on that one screen without scrolling about 75-80% of the time.
2. Given your last sentence, #2 really doesn't make much sense. The analysis window is no more or less visually distracting than ID.

Software is all about choices. In this case, the more information we can get, and the easier we can get it, makes us more productive. My Greek/Hebrew skills are on the light side, so the Analysis/ID window is of immense help when I'm researching a text. The ability to scroll over a sentence and immediately see the words involved make me a lot more productive then having to triple-click on each word as I go.

Another way some programs (not BibleWorks) present instant information is in a floating tooltip which appears beside your cursor. The problem with this approach is that the instant information is still accosting you when you don't want it, and even worse, is actually obscuring the text underneath. With this approach, the user must constantly move his cursor off to the edges of the screen to get rid of the tooltips and view his text unobstructed. Again, by keeping the instant information in a consistent and unobtrusive location on screen, Accordance avoids those problems.

Actually, BW has offered tooltips as an option since BW7. I personally keep them turned off for the reasons you state, but there are others who use and love them. Again, the choice is what's important. What works best for you doesn't necessarily work best for me, and vice versa. Just because I (or you) don't like them isn't a reason not to have them. :)

As for the paragraph display, the GNT-TD text does have paragraph breaks. I'm not sure why the KJVSD does not, because the full version of the KJVS does have them.

Ahh, OK. I didn't expect them to be in the native language texts, but I did assume they would be in your KJVSD since this is a demo intended to show off the product. Displaying paragraphs is something I've long wanted in BW, so I wanted to actually see what it looked like in Accordance.

I like a lot of what I see in Accordance (except the expense, of course), but losing the instant access to information in the ID is going to be a big deal for me. I'm going to continue to play with the demo and watch the rest of the training, but there's really not enough in the demo to do real work. Does Accordance offer a return period on the software?

Thanks again for the reply, I appreciate your time.

Vince

#7 vr8ce

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 08:02 AM

From what I've seen in the BW interface, you cannot replicate it exactly in Accordance. The biggest difference is not being able to see BDAG, TWOT, or HALOT, etc in instance details.

What you can do, however, to make your Accordance workflow look like BW is to have two workspaces open and tile them (in the drop down menu Window-Arrange-Tile Windows or cmd-i), one with your Bible text and another with your desired lexicon (BDAG for NT, TWOT or HALOT for OT). You then need to set the lexicon to "Recycle Contents" (from the drop down menu go to Window-Set-Recycle Contents (or simply cmd-k). Now when ever you triple-click a word, your lexicon will do two things: 1. it will look up and highlight the word you triple-clicked and 2) it will look up and highlight the reference from where you clicked (it will only highlight the passage if it does in fact appear in your lexicon's entry). # 2) is especially helpful in saving time while writing a paper. When you look up a word in BDAG, you not only see how BDAG defines the word, but also how the editors interpreted the passage you are working on (i.e., by seeing which usage they classify your passage under). Because the passage reference is highlighted is very easy to just quickly scroll through to find it.


Thanks very much for the detailed reply! This is what I was trying to do, but I wasn't very sucessful. :) I'll go play with it a bit more to see what I can figure out.

To speak to the rest, learning the bits I like about Accordance are exactly what I'm trying to do in going through the demo and the training. And there's a lot I like, from simple things like paragraph breaks (which I can't actually see in the demo), to more complicated things. I wouldn't be re-considering re-buying books I've already bought twice (don't get me started) if there wasn't a lot in Accordance to like.

However, sometimes the reason we like software is because it works the way we expect to work. I refer to this (and others coined the phrase, not me) as the element of least surprise. When I researched Bible software several years ago, BW worked the way I wanted to work, and nothing else on the market came close. The Analysis window is one of those things that drew me to BW. So, losing that is a big deal to me. It's only one item on the list, but it's a huge item because it's used all the time, because it makes me much more productive, and because it works the way I expect to work.

Anyway, thanks again for the detailed reply. I'm off to see what I can set up in the demo.

Vince

#8 DanG

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 10:25 AM

We know other programs will display whole lexicon entries, and that can certainly come in handy. But there are downsides to that approach which we think outweigh the convenience. That's why we haven't followed suit.

What are the downsides?

1. You have to devote a large portion of the screen to instant details. In order to show whole lexicon entries, you have to have a large window devoted to showing information about whatever the cursor passes over.

...Rob's suggestion of setting up a recyclable lexicon window beside the text is probably the best workaround, and the advantage is that this window is only updated when you tell it to be (by triple-clicking).


I like Rob's suggestion too, the problem is that it creates your first downside. Even worse, a portion of the screen is covered ALL the time--even when you don't need it.

Since you can "freeze" the Instant Details, I really would advocate for the option for a scroll bar. In addition to what has already been discussed in this topic, the Instant Details only shows the first verse of any reference you mouse over. So what happens is I mouse over the verse reference, look at the Instant Details which doesn't show the entire reference, then click on the verse reference to read all the verses which then opens a new window which totally covers what I am working on. Now, instead of devoting a large portion of my screen to instant details, I've devoted my entire screen to reading a verse reference. A scroll bar in the Instant Details that appears when you "freeze" it would seem like a nice compromise that doesn't take any more screen real estate and doesn't force you to totally cover what you are working on.

#9 RobM

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 11:26 AM

I like Rob's suggestion too, the problem is that it creates your first downside. Even worse, a portion of the screen is covered ALL the time--even when you don't need it.


Personally, I agree that my suggestion has the downside of covering screen space that I would prefer to show other things like additional panes in my main tab stretching from one side of my screen to the other (this is one reason I don't like the BW interface. Most of the screens I have seen people use have the screen segmented into three columns and only the middle is dedicated to actual Bible text and the right side has, as Vince has indicated, the elaborate instant details).

Here's how I set things up and I find this very easy and useful.
The way I have my "OT Studies" workspace set up is with several tabs: Tab 1 has BHS-W4, BHS Apparatus, User Notes (incld'g translations and exegetical notes; although I sometimes add more panes of other notes categories depending on what I am working on); Tab 2 has HALOT (set to recycle contents); Tab 3 has BDB Complete (linked to HALOT so that whatever is looked up in HALOT is also looked up in BDB); Tab 4 has TWOT (linked to HALOT like BDB for the same purpose) (then I have grammars and a couple other things in successive tabs). Personally, I rarely want to read the entire entry in HALOT, BDB, and TWOT for words that are in the verses I am studying, so I do not require having any space designated to be parallel with my Tab 1. But when there are rare words or words that could greatly affect my understanding of the passage I triple-click (which automatically takes me to Tab 2 [HALOT]) and then cntrl-tab (cntrl-shift-tab) to go back and forth among Tabs 1-4. And when I do look up words I like having the entire screen dedicated to one lexicon (I typically increase the font size to a big font due to all the technical abbreviations and other semitic language scripts). If I need to copy something into a note or write a comment on how a lexicon handles a word I simply do expose to click on my "exegetical notes" edit window and now I have my edit window over a section of the lexicon that I don't need so I can read and comment on the part that is most relevant the passage I am working on.

Another possibility, and I do this sometimes, is to connect to a second monitor and arrange in split screen. Then have the lexicons open on one screen and your Bible text tab open on the other. This enables you to look at several things at once and have the "books open all over the desk" feel.

Edited by RobM, 21 April 2009 - 11:34 AM.


#10 RobM

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 11:43 AM

To speak to the rest, learning the bits I like about Accordance are exactly what I'm trying to do in going through the demo and the training. And there's a lot I like, from simple things like paragraph breaks (which I can't actually see in the demo), to more complicated things. I wouldn't be re-considering re-buying books I've already bought twice (don't get me started) if there wasn't a lot in Accordance to like.

However, sometimes the reason we like software is because it works the way we expect to work. I refer to this (and others coined the phrase, not me) as the element of least surprise. When I researched Bible software several years ago, BW worked the way I wanted to work, and nothing else on the market came close. The Analysis window is one of those things that drew me to BW. So, losing that is a big deal to me. It's only one item on the list, but it's a huge item because it's used all the time, because it makes me much more productive, and because it works the way I expect to work.


As I think of some of "the rest" of what I wrote, I suppose the tone had a edge to it that assumed you might not be trying to explore Accordance further to make an informed decision. That was not my intention. It sounds like you are very serious about making an informed decision and I commend you for it. I suppose my zeal for Accordance began to surface and I wanted to make sure you were considering all options, which you obviously are (as evidenced by your questions and discussion).

-Robert ;)

Edited by RobM, 21 April 2009 - 11:46 AM.


#11 David Lang

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 02:01 PM

My Greek/Hebrew skills are on the light side, so the Analysis/ID window is of immense help when I'm researching a text. The ability to scroll over a sentence and immediately see the words involved make me a lot more productive then having to triple-click on each word as I go.


Vince, this sentence has me a little confused, and wondering if you're seeing all of the info that is normally contained in the Instant Details box. You should see the inflected form, lexical form, root form (in the full version), full parsing, and English gloss. Does that not allow you "to scroll over a sentence and immediately see the words involved" without "having to triple-click on each word" as you go?

The only reason you would have to triple-click is to get a more in depth lexical entry, and if you're reducing the size of your instant info window in BW it doesn't sound like you're seeing much more than the initial gloss in the lexicons. I guess what I'm asking is what specifically do you feel you're missing?
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#12 vr8ce

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 08:19 PM

As I think of some of "the rest" of what I wrote, I suppose the tone had a edge to it that assumed you might not be trying to explore Accordance further to make an informed decision. That was not my intention. It sounds like you are very serious about making an informed decision and I commend you for it. I suppose my zeal for Accordance began to surface and I wanted to make sure you were considering all options, which you obviously are (as evidenced by your questions and discussion).

-Robert ;)

Not all (sorry it's taken so long, real life has intruded on my software investigation). You were doing the right thing -- making sure I wasn't trying to re-create a PC wheel in Mac software. I'm not, just trying to re-create my very productive workspace. :)

#13 vr8ce

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 08:57 PM

Vince, this sentence has me a little confused, and wondering if you're seeing all of the info that is normally contained in the Instant Details box. You should see the inflected form, lexical form, root form (in the full version), full parsing, and English gloss. Does that not allow you "to scroll over a sentence and immediately see the words involved" without "having to triple-click on each word" as you go?

The only reason you would have to triple-click is to get a more in depth lexical entry, and if you're reducing the size of your instant info window in BW it doesn't sound like you're seeing much more than the initial gloss in the lexicons. I guess what I'm asking is what specifically do you feel you're missing?

Sorry it's taken so long to get back to this, real life intruded for a couple of weeks.

First, I asked last time what your return policy is for the software. I don't believe I saw a reply.

Yes, I see those things on the original language side (barring the root form -- another difference in the demo? Hmmm). But, as I mentioned in my previous reply, I see what I want about 75% of the time, meaning I see much more than the initial gloss; I see all or enough of the lexicon entry (BDAG, HALOT, TWOT, etc.) to tell me what I want to know.

Disregarding that (and that's big already), on the English side, Accordance also doesn't have: the meaning and the usage (the various words the original language word is translated as).

I also find the disappearance of the instant details when letting go of the shift key (if the cursor is in the instant details window) very disconcerting. Why does it do that?

I am not yet "one with Accordance," nor do I expect to be with just the demo. But I still need to go through some more of the training DVD online, and play with some of the configuration. Part of my concern, however, is that I didn't have to become "one with BW" order to be productive with it. Yes, BW's command line is harder to learn than Accordance's (one of the things I prefer about Accordance), but other than that, I was immediately productive without having to do a lot of configuring, and everything I needed was available easily.

I've already spent more time trying to get Accordance to do what I want than I've spent on BW the entire six years I've used it. From what I read on the blogs and see in the training, it appears that Accordance is very powerful, and can do several things that BW can't do (in particular, I love that Accordance deals with passages, especially disparate passages, better than BW). But so far, it's taking a lot of work to figure it out, thus violating the "least surprise" in lots of ways.

Thanks again for your help. I'm going to continue trying to work through this, but ultimately I'm going to have to have the full software for a period of time, which brings us back to the return policy. :)

#14 Helen Brown

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 06:30 AM

There is always a learning curve with new software, especially one like Accordance which "thinks different" from all other Bible software, but once you get into it there is great consistency as to how similar tasks are accomplished in different windows. You are really handicapped trying to work all this out with just those minimal demo texts.

We really don't have a return policy, except for those who cannot get it to work on the PC with the BasiliskII emulator. I assume that you are on Mac. We encourage users to start small, say with the Scholar's Introductory level, and add on as needed and as they are comfortable. That investment of $149 at retail is surely not that great. As you indicate, the investment of your time is of much more significance, but I am confident that you will regret neither if you do decide to take the plunge.
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#15 Timothy Jenney

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 07:09 AM

Pleased to hear you're trying out Accordance!

David Lang has often said, "most of the power of Accordance is hidden under the hood," a nice metaphor referencing a sleek sports car. Accordance presents a very clean, uncluttered interface. The advantage of this is it allow the user to focus on the Bible itself, not the various helps. Thus Accordance is more "Biblo-centric" than the other programs you've mentioned. You can use it for the simplest of daily devotions—or do the most complex word searches and studies you can imagine.

However, you are only a single step away from even its most powerful resources. I wonder if you have tried experimenting with the right-click function (control-click on a Mac)? Selecting a word and doing so opens a menu of very powerful commands, which allow you to access information in a variety of ways. I particularly want to point our that you can immediately access any resource you have designated as a "Favorite." So, even if you have BDAG set as your triple-click lexicon, you can access NIDNTT or TDNT with a simple "right-click, scroll, release."

Most of the seminary students I've taught who use BW on a Mac consider Accordance a huge step up in terms of quality and resources.

I was a user for 14 years before I joined the OakTree team. Over those years I made a conscious decision to invest in electronic resources rather than print copies. I'm sure glad I did, as I have been able to travel the world with my biblical resources library at hand. It made preparing to teach and preach a joy. It's well worth the money!

[And yes, I'm an enthusiast. Can you tell? ;)]

Blessings,
"Dr. J"

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#16 Lorinda H. M. Hoover

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 07:31 AM

Disregarding that (and that's big already), on the English side, Accordance also doesn't have: the meaning and the usage (the various words the original language word is translated as).


Can you say more about what you are looking for here? I'm reasonably sure that there's a way to get what you are asking for using the keyed texts, but I want to be sure I understand what kind of information you are wanting to look up.


I also find the disappearance of the instant details when letting go of the shift key (if the cursor is in the instant details window) very disconcerting. Why does it do that?


If you are referring to the entire Instant Details box disappearing at times, that's a preferences setting that can be changed (Preferences>Instant Details). The disappearing box was designed for folks with limited screen real estate.

If you mean that the contents of the Instand Details box keep changing (or becomes blank), that happens because your mouse moves to a different word, or to an area of the screen where there is no Instant Detail info.


Lorinda

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#17 Joel Brown

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 08:12 AM

I also find the disappearance of the instant details when letting go of the shift key (if the cursor is in the instant details window) very disconcerting. Why does it do that?

You know, I assumed this had been mentioned in the thread before, but I guess not. Try to get acquainted with the 'Parsing' button of the resource palette. Its the top-left one of the 'Language' section. For all of the words selected when clicked it essentially displays a more powerful instant details box, one that can be easily customized, copied and pasted, etc. Plus, if you Detach the Tab (Command-Option-T, or from the Window menu), you can keep it neatly organized next to your Workspace (Tiling the windows does that automatically for you — Command-I) so that every time you click the parsing button it will update to the new words you know what the information of.

Its important to remember the different 'levels' of display Accordance has. At the very fast, quick 'Oh, I remember!' level is the Instant Details that requires no clicks. If you want a bit more detail or for a range of words, you can use the Parsing. It has the pros of being static, more customizable, more information, and copyable, but the con of requiring a single click. If you need even more detail on a single word, you triple-click it to get to your favorite dictionary, or select it and then select your desired dictionary from the resource palette. Thus, you go from no clicks to 1 click to 3 clicks, each time increasing the amount of information you desire.

I hope this helps some.
Joel Brown

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#18 Rick Bennett

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 08:25 AM

Disregarding that (and that's big already), on the English side, Accordance also doesn't have: the meaning and the usage (the various words the original language word is translated as).


If it is a key number text you can right-click (ctrl-click), Search For > Key Number. Then click Details. Next the Analysis tab. This will give you a list of the different English words used to translate the particular Key Number, along with other customizable info (cmd-T).

Also, if you are using the NAS95S, triple-click on the English word and it will open the NAS Strong's Dictionary (either Greek or Hebrew). This dictionary automatically breaks down the way each word is translated in English.

The Key Number texts in Accordance are great resources. Make sure to hit this section in the DVD, and search the blog for some posts. The combination of the ESVS with the ESV Study Bible are an unparalleled resource in any other program.

HTH…

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#19 vr8ce

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 10:22 AM

There is always a learning curve with new software, especially one like Accordance which "thinks different" from all other Bible software, but once you get into it there is great consistency as to how similar tasks are accomplished in different windows. You are really handicapped trying to work all this out with just those minimal demo texts.

We really don't have a return policy, except for those who cannot get it to work on the PC with the BasiliskII emulator. I assume that you are on Mac. We encourage users to start small, say with the Scholar's Introductory level, and add on as needed and as they are comfortable. That investment of $149 at retail is surely not that great. As you indicate, the investment of your time is of much more significance, but I am confident that you will regret neither if you do decide to take the plunge.

Really, no return policy? That's ... extremely unfortunate, and unprecedented. Every other Bible software I've tested (and I've tested a half-dozen over the years, including all of your major competitors) has a 30-day return policy. It is extraordinary that Accordance doesn't, especially since the demo is so limited.

Frankly, that seals it for me. I'm not going to invest time in learning something I can't return if it doesn't work, and I'm certainly not going to invest money for the same reason (that's just bad stewardship).

Thank you for your reply.

#20 vr8ce

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 10:35 AM

If it is a key number text you can right-click (ctrl-click), Search For > Key Number. Then click Details. Next the Analysis tab. This will give you a list of the different English words used to translate the particular Key Number, along with other customizable info (cmd-T).

Also, if you are using the NAS95S, triple-click on the English word and it will open the NAS Strong's Dictionary (either Greek or Hebrew). This dictionary automatically breaks down the way each word is translated in English.

The Key Number texts in Accordance are great resources. Make sure to hit this section in the DVD, and search the blog for some posts. The combination of the ESVS with the ESV Study Bible are an unparalleled resource in any other program.


I'll reply to you and Joel both here. First, thank you very much for your details and hints, it really is very helpful.

However, the point I'm trying to make is that all of this is extra work to get information that I get now for "free" (just by hovering). To paraphrase a famous passage, there is a time to click and a time to hover, and I would like more of the latter and less of the former. :) For example, what you describe on the NAS95S above (which I can't test since the NAS isn't part of the demo) I already get as part of the "instant details" equivalent. So, what I can get for "free" now just by moving across a verse, I would have to triple-click on each word to get in Accordance. This isn't just a different "zen," this is a difference in productivity. I would encourage Accordance to look into making more information available easier.

(Having said that, I have to say that I much prefer Accordance's search syntax. It's simple, readable, and readily available (hotkeys for everything, which is unfortunately unusual in the Mac world). That's just one example of things I prefer in Accordance; I say that to remind that this isn't about re-creating a previous wheel, it's about software making users as productive as they can be.)

But, I'm afraid I'm going to have leave (or rather stick with what I have) for other reasons; see my reply to Helen.

Thanks again to everyone who replied, you've all been very helpful.




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