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#1 mikes

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 08:47 AM

One of the things I find myself wanting to do more and more frequently is take "marginal notes" while reading commentaries. Not user tool notes, but actual notes that I would want to be noticeable next time I come back to the same tool.

For example, when starting to read the WBC volume 52, I wanted to learn more about the author. So I googled David E. Aune and learned a LOT about both the author and the commentary itself. Fantastic stuff that I don't really have the ability to connect to the commentary.

I understand that I can include this in a user tool, but then I need to dig up that particular user tool. I also find that my user tools are proliferating like hamsters in the basement, but that's another problem and another feature request :)

Thanks,

Mike

#2 RobM

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 12:02 PM

As I'm sure you know, this topic has been discussed before. But now that you brought it up again, I thought of another option, albeit an imperfect one. You could create a new User Note file called "Notes on WBC" (or you could call it "Notes on Commentaries" so that you could use it for more than just WBC) So, whenever you open WBC open it in a Bible text tab and open your "Notes on WBC" pane (and feel free to close any Bible text panes in order to create more space in the tab). This way you don't get to use the browser feature, but you can still browse by book/chapter/verse and create notes to particular bible verses about what was written in WBC. And for the introductory portions of the commentary just put the notes on the 1:1 note and rename the title of the note to reflect the section of the commentary you are commenting on and then when you want to comment on the commentaries comment on 1:1 simply type in *book name* 1:1 later on in the 1:1 note.

I knows its not exactly what you are wanting, but this seems to be pretty close. What do you think?

(Sorry about the pdf, I didn't know how to upload a thumbnail correctly :rolleyes: I figured it out for my next post though ;) )

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Edited by RobM, 10 September 2009 - 11:40 AM.


#3 mikes

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 06:21 PM

I am very familiar with the user tool approach, and this is what I'm currently doing when I have the patience with a slight addition. I highlight some part of the tool to cue me into the fact that I've taken a user note. The issue is that I need to know which tool to open, open it, detach it and adjust windows.

The ROI on the request for tool user notes is at least threefold:
1. Provide a tooltip or cue that I've taken notes on this particular tool, and be able to bring that tool up quickly and easily
I have too many tools already... knowing that I need to open a specific tool for is proving challenging. Today I provide this cue to a user tool via highlighting

2. Stop the proliferation of user tools
I'd like to get a set of user tools with as clean a set of lines as you have described in another post ;)
I also have 100s of tools, and I really do use a majority of them (60 Reference tools alone that I've just ID'd as regularly used)... if I had a user tool for each, I think I'd go insane... for now, I just don't take the notes :(

3. Viable window management
Being able to keep a user tool and/or note open as part of the Accordance Module Tool is FAR more manageable then having two separate windows. The minute I go to a different tab ( I like using ref lists as well) I now have yet another coordinated window I have to link up to (e.g. I have ABD crossrefs to other dictionaries and tools).

Thanks,

Mike

#4 RobM

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 08:33 PM

Mike,

I think you have misunderstood me. My suggestion was not to create another User Tool, but a new User Note. I suggest you call the User Note "Notes on Commentaries". As a User Note, whenever you open a Bible passage concerning which you commented on a commentary, you are cued that you have a comment on a commentary. The advantage of this is you would be able to view your notes in the same tab as a given commentary as a parallel pane.

Again, it is not the same as a User file linked directly to a Reference tool, but it gets pretty close. Don't you think?

#5 mikes

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 10:37 AM

... create a new User Note file called ... "Notes on Commentaries" ... for the introductory portions of the commentary just put the notes on the 1:1 note and rename the title of the note to reflect the section of the commentary

I think I understand now :D

I think I'll try it out, definitely still far from ideal, but might be enough to get me through for now. Key pieces I'll be missing:
1. Browser convenience
2. Search in Tool
3. Page number navigation for 100s of pages of introductory material

The one area I still suspect will be too difficult is in commentaries and other ref tools with large (and valuable) sections that are not tied directly to a verse. Of course, links in user notes would take care of this quite easily. As an example, in the WBC Rev commentary, there are about 200 physical pages of introduction in the printed edition and in the NIGTC commentary, there are more then 180 introductory pages...

No matter what, I like the idea of at least keeping a place holder and pointer to a user notes file.

In the mean time, I've created a setup like I think you're talking about. Would you mind taking a look and commenting?

Spending 20 minutes in this tab makes it clear to me this just won't work for intros, even when I know exactly what page # I want to navigate to, it takes me 4+ minutes just to scroll the right page in the intro (and this is for reference works WITH page numbers!). I tried getting creative and going to the last verse in the previous book and manually scroll forward, but that failed because with WBC, the books aren't in the exact order for the previous commentary, and it doesn't work at all for standalone commentaries like the NIGTC. Am I just misunderstanding your idea?

Thanks,

Mike

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#6 RobM

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 11:35 AM

I think you've got it now. I think this set up will work pretty well for when you comment on a commentary's comments on verses, but you are absolutely right that it is not too conducive to reading through the Introduction sections of commentaries.

One question, are you wanting to have cues to your notes while reading through a commentary or while reading biblical passages?

If the former, there certainly is currently no optimal set up for you.

If the latter, then I don't think there would be a problem at all. When you are writing notes on the Introduction sections of commentaries, you could open the commentary in another tab as a tool (and not within a bible text tab, this would give you all three of your wanted items) and have your commentary notes edit window floating next to it. Then write all your notes from the Intro sections of commentaries in the 1:1 portion of your "commentary notes" file. If I were doing this, I would rename the 1:1 portion as "Commentary Introductions" and then below all my notes on the Intro sections I would type second title e.g., Rev 1:1.

Attached File  Commentary Notes #1.jpg   430.81KB   22 downloads
Attached File  Commentary Notes #2.jpg   413.2KB   21 downloads
Attached File  Commentary Notes #3.jpg   404.61KB   19 downloads

With this set up, whenever you opened a bible text to Rev 1:1 there would be a cue that you have a note on that verse. When you click on the red dot (the cue) then the correct User Note file automatically opens (though it opens it in a separate dedicated tab and not as a pane... :huh: ). If you have other User Notes files on Rev 1:1, the red triangle appears. If you click and hold on the red triangle a pop up appears with a list of User Note files that have notes on that verse.

I suppose this kind of set up is kind of 'working the system' in perhaps not the most optimal way, but I think it gets pretty close. What do you think of it?

#7 mikes

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 01:02 PM

I think you've got it now. I think this set up will work pretty well for when you comment on a commentary's comments on verses, but you are absolutely right that it is not too conducive to reading through the Introduction sections of commentaries.

One question, are you wanting to have cues to your notes while reading through a commentary or while reading biblical passages?
...

With this set up, whenever you opened a bible text to Rev 1:1 there would be a cue that you have a note on that verse. When you click on the red dot (the cue) then the correct User Note file automatically opens (though it opens it in a separate dedicated tab and not as a pane... :huh: ). If you have other User Notes files on Rev 1:1, the red triangle appears. If you click and hold on the red triangle a pop up appears with a list of User Note files that have notes on that verse.

I suppose this kind of set up is kind of 'working the system' in perhaps not the most optimal way, but I think it gets pretty close. What do you think of it?


Unfortunately, the biggest frustration is the former: while reading through a commentary, I'd like to see a cue that I've done some research and note taking WRT that commentary already.

That said, I've tended to avoid user notes lately due to the linking features in user tools ("Copy as User Tools Link" was my favorite feature in the latest release!). After noodling this out with you, I think I'll be spending more time on the Text Search tab with user notes. Thank you!

Mike




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