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Accordance for new iPad?


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#81 FoundInTheFlood

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 05:43 AM

I just registed here to say that an iPhone, but now more importantly an iPad version would be what everyone needs ;) I approve this request ;D

#82 Curt Parton

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 10:42 AM

Add my vote for Accordance for the iPad. I am seriously considering replacing my iBook G4 with an iPad. If Accordance is available for it, that will cinch my decision.

#83 Tom

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 01:20 PM

I feel like I need to chime in again. As long as the iPad is based on the iPod OS, I am not sure it would be wise to create an in-depth version of Accordance for the iPad. Maybe a simple stripped down one.

I still believe the flash limitation on the iPad will greatly cripple its popularity. My premise is that the iPad is for the casual user. Someone who doesn't know that much about computers and just wants to get on the internet, watch a movie, listen to music or use the iPad as a digital photo display. But the fact that the iPad will not show flash items, I predict, will be a deal breaker for many. Want to watch the free streaming of the NCAA basketball tournament? Can't do it on the iPad. Want to log on to Facebook and keep your Farm or Cafe running smoothly? Can't do it. Want to watch a movie from Hulu, or enjoy a Youtube video your son put up from his college late-night goof-offs? Not on the iPad you don't. Check the latest news from a website? Try it and you'll find that half the content is Flash. Flash is so ubiquitous that it will hurt the iPad web surfing experience greatly not to have it. I believe that will be a deal breaker for many. Will some of the content providers make "iPad—with no flash—compatible sites?" Yes, maybe, but not nearly enough to relieve the frustration of going to a site in anticipation of wanting to read or see something only to find that you are met with a blue lego box.

The iPad is not just a bigger iPod touch. It is meant to be something revolutionary. Until it some how, some way incorporates compatibility with Flash, I believe it runs the risk of simply being a "Flash in the Pan."

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#84 Fr. Rusty Matheny

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 02:47 PM

I feel I must disagree, Apple does not take these things lightly, nor are they ill informed.
Flash is going to have to change or become obsolete, it is just that simple.
People are going to follow the money, same as they did with the Ipod, the Iphone and Ipod touch.
The money resides in writing for the platform that is drawing buyers, and, buyers that are buying new software.

People said the Iphone and ipod touch would not thrive for this and several other reasons, yet, those products have been, and are, changing the technical landscape as they change the way people live.

I was a Pc guy all my computer life, built all my own, and do quite a bit of repair and service work, yet, the Iphone changed my life radically.
I no longer even have a Pc set up at my home or office.
The Iphone made me look at Apple much closer, and then, another life change with the addition of a MacBook.

My findings are simply this, I get more work done on Apple Products.
I get more work done on software written for Macs and have not found a single thing I cannot do, cannot read, cannot communicate.
I have more software, for less money, more stability, less intrusions into my life and, technology that serves me, my best interests, my way of life.

My finding is that Apple makes good decisions because they research well, look beyond the quick fix and quick dollar to ways of making technology, more and more, a regular "part of our lives" instead of something we have to modify our lives and end up serving.

My Prediction; The Ipad is going to change the way we use computers yet again.
I will be getting one for my wife soon.

I will get one when I can and use the Bible software that best works on all three of my devices, the Mac, the Iphone and Ipad.

Technology wise: For me and my house, if it won't work on a Mac, we probably don't need it anyway.-smile

Rusty+

Edited by Fr. Rusty Matheny, 21 March 2010 - 03:44 PM.


#85 Rod Decker

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 05:03 PM

I'll add my vote for some form of Accordance for an iPad, and yes, that would likely result in another iPad sale if it were available.

For those wanting a full OS on the iPad, you ought to read this new post on Tom's hardware. There have been some other articles along the same lines (but I haven't saved the url's), arguing that an OS must be designed specifically for touch interface. You can't convert/port either an OS or an app designed for mouse interaction to something like the iPad without rethinking most of the user interface.

I'd be very happy with an initial Accordance iPad app that handled texts (including at least Greek; Hebrew would be nice, but R-to-L is more complicated, I'm sure) and linked resources (the sort of links that you could generate from a finger tap) and some basic search abilities. Later versions could extend the search capabilities (wouldn't the Construct window be neat with a finger interface?!)
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#86 Rod Decker

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 05:03 PM

I'll add my vote for some form of Accordance for an iPad, and yes, that would likely result in another iPad sale if it were available.

For those wanting a full OS on the iPad, you ought to read this new post on Tom's hardware. There have been some other articles along the same lines (but I haven't saved the url's), arguing that an OS must be designed specifically for touch interface. You can't convert/port either an OS or an app designed for mouse interaction to something like the iPad without rethinking most of the user interface.

I'd be very happy with an initial Accordance iPad app that handled texts (including at least Greek; Hebrew would be nice, but R-to-L is more complicated, I'm sure) and linked resources (the sort of links that you could generate from a finger tap) and some basic search abilities. Later versions could extend the search capabilities (wouldn't the Construct window be neat with a finger interface?!)
Rodney J. Decker, ThD
Professor of NT & Greek
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NTResources.com/blog/

#87 R. Mansfield

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 06:31 PM

For those wanting a full OS on the iPad, you ought to read this new post on Tom's hardware. There have been some other articles along the same lines (but I haven't saved the url's), arguing that an OS must be designed specifically for touch interface. You can't convert/port either an OS or an app designed for mouse interaction to something like the iPad without rethinking most of the user interface.


Exactly (the point and the linked article). If Apple simply ported OS X to a tablet, they'd probably sell a few more than Axiotron does, but probably not much more. The iPad will succeed where tablets have failed because it's a new platform/OS made for the tablet. Those who want to remind us that Windows has been available in tablet form since 2002 don't get it.

And as for Flash (mentioned a couple of posts up), I've been using Click2Flash for a while, and get along quite well without Flash (most of the time) on my Mac already. I can't imagine that I'll somehow miss it more on the iPad. I have two on order--one for me and one for my wife.

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#88 Tom

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 06:34 PM

Flash is going to have to change or become obsolete, it is just that simple.

I don't doubt that Flash may change in the future. But it will not, because it can not change in the near future. It is simply too prevalent. Maybe a year, two or three from now, but I am speaking about the appeal and the usefulness of the iPad now.


People said the Iphone and ipod touch would not thrive for this and several other reasons, yet, those products have been, and are, changing the technical landscape as they change the way people live.

I said before, and I will repeat myself: this is not the iPod (or the iPhone). It is meant to be revolutionary. There was a small amount of complaint that the iPod Touch (and iPhone) couldn't support flash, but the internet is not so nearly critical to those handheld devices as it is and will be to the iPad.


My Prediction; The iPad is going to change the way we use computers yet again.
I will be getting one for my wife soon.

It may. I hope it does. But until it incorporates Flash, I hope your wife's expectations of her web experience isn't very high ;)

I was initially thinking this would be perfect for my wife as well, but without flash, she won't understand why she can't do the few basic things she likes to do on the internet. And once I tell her why, she will end up borrowing my laptop—just like she does now. My conclusion and opinion is based on this then: if my wife (the simplest of users) won't be satisfied using the iPad for surfing the internet, then this consumer product is deeply flawed.

Just my opinion here, nothing personal.
Tom
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#89 Rod Decker

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 08:03 PM

From what I understand (but I'm not a programmer), Flash *can't* work interactively on a touch interface; the entire system assumes pointer location (mouse over, etc.). Unless Adobe were to rewrite the interface, it's just not going to happen--and they show no inclination to do so.

I run NoScript and rarely find a site for which I have to allow Flash. Most of that content on the sites I use are only for ads--and I'm glad to be done with that. There are also plenty of sites that have mobile-optimized pages for iPhone users and they all work fine w/o Flash and those pages will also work fine for iPad. And then HTML5 may well make Flash a dead/non-issue, and it's an open standard, not a proprietary system like Flash.

My two cents! ;)

Edited by Rod Decker, 21 March 2010 - 08:04 PM.

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#90 Andy Crim

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 08:37 PM

You can find both sides of the discussion here:

http://www.roughlydr...cant-use-flash/

http://www.mikechamb...nd-touch-input/


John Gruber's take is that a touch UI can be adapted to work with Flash, but that it will be "inherently awkward." http://daringfirebal...d/2010/february

Q. -- When will flash come to the iPhone or iPad?
A. -- When Apple choses to go the path of inherently awkward.

As far as, will the iPad sell?
September 10, 2007 -- “One million iPhones in 74 days—it took almost two years to achieve this milestone with iPod,” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO. “We can’t wait to get this revolutionary product into the hands of even more customers this holiday season.


Last week -- With total estimated pre-orders for week one at 190,000 units, an estimate that doesn't include bulk orders by institutions or reservations for store pickup, which the Boy Genius reports were pouring in that first weekend at the same rate as pre-orders, Daniel Tello from the Apple Sanity discussion board says, "Based on this, and using my intuition and experience, and voodoo or however you want to call it, I'm sticking to my prediction of 1 million sold by mid-April.
http://aaplmodel.blogspot.com/

If he is anywhere near correct we can look for a similar success story as with the iPhone.

I know mine will be delivered on April 3.

#91 Fr. Rusty Matheny

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 10:37 PM

I think that is the key to this: If the platform sells, programmers will write for the platform in order to reach those that buy the platform.

The same is probably true for Accordance, if the market is there by way of the platform being popular, then a certain percentage of those with that platform are going to want this software.
It's about marketing and economy of scale.

If enough people buy the platform, then web-sites, content providers and software programmers in general are going to make sure they get their share of that market.

Things just seem to be different with Apple than some other companies.

Some "just" make hardware (platform) to run on/with what is available and currently popular, others, like Apple, move the whole situation further down the road by changing what is going to be the next norm that everyone is programming for.
I am reminded that there was a time no one thought flash would catch on, not to mention: Who would ever want a computer in their home?

I recently watched a College presentation by Walt Mossberg ( sorry, don't have the link at hand right now, but will get it if anyone wants it), in the presentation he talked about the fact that : Computers have not really come of age yet, but it is coming fast.

There was a time when electricity was a novelty, mostly for the wealthy, then, people started finding new uses for it, soon whole industries were built around it, making things used through it.

Today, we do not even think "about" electricity unless it goes out!
You do not "think" about turning on the lights, you just reach for the switch, you do not think about electricity in relation to the refrigerator, unless the food gets warm, you don't think about electricity when turning on the Tv, unless it does not come on-so forth and so on.

When computing becomes so normal to our lives that we no longer "think about computers" then computers will have come of age.

He is correct, the same is true of indoor plumbing, running water, and all sorts of things that are "normalized" to our lives.

When is the last time people sat around and had a forum or blog discussion about indoor plumbing, how it works, what the cutting edge drains of tomorrow will be like?

When was the last time people were really interested in the technology of the light switch?

Soon, computing will be the same way, information sharing will be part of everything, the whole house, the refrigerator, the stove, the car, everything will be interconnected and we will not think about computers as such, but will just access what they do for us.

Apple is one of the companies ( they are not alone ) that just "gets it" when it comes to this type of thinking.

More and more people do not even want to know what processor, how much ram, what video card, does it use flash, or whatever, they just want to do what they do, they just want to get what they wanted to get.

How many of us asked the sales people what pump was in the dishwasher, what type timer, what type insulation?

We didn't, we just wanted to know if it washed dishes well and if it would last, would it do dishes when we wanted it to, was it quiet, things of this sort.

These are going to be the "types" of questions that people are asking about computers in the future, things of that "nature".

Who would have thought ten or fifteen years ago that we would be able to sit in bed and read a book on a handheld device that could hold more books than our bookshelves!

At any rate, things are changing, the norm today will rapidly be old hat.

Computers are becoming more interactive and responsive to the ways in which we live.
No more do we have to be tied to a desk, or a cord, or even a lap-desk.

I think Apple has again moved the peg, even before the first IPad is in a customers hands, the whole industry is working toward doing what Apple is doing.

One real key has been and remains the App Store/ I-tunes Model.

I wish Accordance had a "Resource Store" where one could try a resource, or part of it, if they liked it they could buy it online and download it into Accordance without a lot of difficulty, just like buying a book from other places for E-books.

ok, enough from me, we shall see, we shall see.

Grace and Peace to all,

Rusty+

#92 Robb Brunansky

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 09:40 AM

I think that if OakTree waits for Apple to deliver a tablet running OS X, they'll never bring Accordance to an Apple tablet computer. That means they would lose a lot of potential customers and revenue in the process.

OS X isn't coming to a tablet. Listen to what Jon Ives says in the iPad video: "In many ways, this defines our vision, our sense, of what's next." The iPad and its OS is the future. Even when you look at its aesthetics, you can see that it has taken from OS X and iPhone OS and become a unique tablet OS. The dock looks like the OS X dock, but the screen icons are made for a touch interface. I believe the iPad OS will bring together the best of both worlds for the device for which it's designed. If Mr. Ives knows what he's talking about, and I think he does, there will never be an OS X iPad/Tablet from Apple.

As far as Flash goes, the only Flash video content I would like to see that I can't watch on my Touch is on hulu. I don't believe that will be a permanent problem, though, as I'm sure hulu and others will create non-Flash versions of their sites, or they will release apps. I can watch any YouTube video I want via the YouTube app on the Touch or on the iPad once it is released. ESPN has an iPhone/Touch video section so you can watch their videos on that device. You can watch the NCAA tournament as well via the app (though you do have to pay for it to watch it live). What is up in the air as far as video on the iPad goes is not whether or not it will be able to play these videos, but what model it will use. Will it be a paid, ad-free model like iTunes? Or will it be a free, ad-supported model like hulu? Or will it all depend on the content and provider? I think it's safe to say that the pricing, content, and format wars over online video are far from over.

I remember a few years back trying to watch highlights of NBA games on NBA.com or wanting to listen to live broadcasts of games on my Mac, but it was always a pain because they were encoded using Windows Media Player format. Now that Macs have become so much more popular, I almost never run into a situation where a video or audio stream is encoded for WMP (or WMP only). I have a feeling we'll see the same thing with Flash as mobile devices become the wave of the future. A platform neutral encoding scheme will become the norm, and this will be important because the number of platforms is exploding like never before due to the proliferation of mobile devices.
Soli Deo Gloria,
Robb Brunansky

#93 Timothy Jenney

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 01:26 PM

I wish Accordance had a "Resource Store" where one could try a resource, or part of it, if they liked it they could buy it online and download it into Accordance without a lot of difficulty, just like buying a book from other places for E-books.


The "download without a lot of difficulty" is coming, just note the difference between updating between Accordance 7.5 and 8.4. You'll see continuous improvement on this feature until we get there. Remember though, internet bandwidth is still a real issue for the largest modules for many of our users, particularly overseas.

The "try [before you buy]" is more difficult, as we must adhere to publishers' copyright restrictions. This is very different from trial versions of software: no e-reader platform I know of currently has this for books. However, we are working to make short podcasts on various modules (like last week's Tyndale Commentary Series). We are also kicking around some other ideas. Remember that you can preview any module in person at one of our all-day seminars or at our booth during annual meetings, conventions, etc.

Blessings,
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#94 Fr. Rusty Matheny

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 02:03 PM

Dear Dr. J : Thank you for the kind reply.

in my short time as a Mac/Accordance owner, I must admit, Accordance has done a great job of updating and improving the product, thus I have no doubts about this company and it's intentions.

Your Podcasts have also been very helpful indeed and I am thankful for them.

I have only two issues with Accordance , which to be honest, does keep me looking about a bit.

1. The interface drives me nuts, it is just difficult to use, always having to resize things to try and get things on the screen, make things fit, it's just a strange thing for me.

2. Looking for resources for purchase is too difficult, the packages are too confusing.

These things are covered in other threads, I only make mention of them because it would "seem" that in thinking of things for the Iphone/Ipad, both of these issues should be addressed in order to have a truly remarkable product for Accordance.

As others have said, the search engine and general speed of Accordance is quite simply the best I have ever seen, and we would not want to sacrifice that at all-smile. ( yes, I guess I want everything)

Thanks again Dr. J, for all you do, and, thanks to the whole Accordance team.

Rusty+

#95 Denes House

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 02:41 PM

Ooh, I hadn't thought about it, but a way to purchase and install new modules FROM WITHIN ACCORDANCE would be a cool feature to have on an iPad version.

Heck, on a Mac OS version, too.
Denes House
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#96 flips

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 06:28 PM

I have only two issues with Accordance , which to be honest, does keep me looking about a bit.
1. The interface drives me nuts, it is just difficult to use, always having to resize things to try and get things on the screen, make things fit, it's just a strange thing for me.


This might be off-topic for this thread, but I have trouble understanding your problems with the interface. Maybe we just work very differently. I have just created some default tabs with layouts that work well for me, and I use keyboard shortcuts to change contents of different windows/panes or what you call them. Compared to other Bible software I've used, Accordance works very smooth.

And I really look forward to seing what Accordance for iPhone will look like. (I assume it's not just a rumor?) I think I read it in the Oak Tree blog or something ...

--
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#97 Fr. Rusty Matheny

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 10:53 PM

Dear Flips: I probably did not present information well on this.

My only issue with the UI is in dealing with separate "boxes" outside of the main UI.
This just makes things,,, untidy for me, not used to this type of thing being an old windows guy and having spent many years on other Biblical studies platforms.

No matter how I try to "fit things" on my screen/s there are gaps, things to not seem to "fit together".
Each time I set up to work I still find myself trying to decide where to put the different Palette boxes, instant details, or library window, highlighters if used, things of this nature.

Just not used to that type of thing and, having the desktop or another program "show through in places" is still distracting to me at this point.

That said, inside the actual "working UI", well, I could not be more pleased, the program and interface there are incredible, the speed still catches me off guard-smile.
At times I still find myself waiting for something that is already done!
Truly an incredible product.

Please note, I am rather new to Accordance and Mac, about a year old Mac guy now, less than that with Accordance.

I have a couple of Study platforms, one of which I have a large investment in but have to use in Windows with Fusion.
I have huge resources there, but find myself using it less and less as it is just so slow and clumsy compared to this, even when using it on my Pc.

I have found nothing that compares to Accordance for speed and stability.
It is the only Biblical studies platform I have ever used that properly uses and releases ram.

So please do not think I was complaining, just stating an area that I personally some difficulty working with.

If it does for me, perhaps it will for others who switch as well.
For whatever it is worth, I have already recommended Accordance to others and some have begun their switch as well.

So, there you go, hope that makes sense.

Any recommendations are of course, appreciated.

Blessings of Grace and Peace,

Rusty+

#98 Helen Brown

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 05:26 AM

Fr. Rusty:

Thank you for explaining. We are planning to work on improving the organization of the floating windows for the next major release.

For the record, we are also working on an iPhone/iPad product. It won't be Accordance and it will be pretty basic at first. We hope that whatever it does will be done really well. We'll plan to expand its capabilities in time. We want to see where Apple and the users are going with these products before we put all our eggs into that basket.

That said, I think this discussion had wandered rather far from its original question. We hear you, those of you who think iPad is the future of personal computing and can't wait to get Accordance on it. The speculations on what the iPad will be and do and become are interesting but a little off-topic. And comments on current Accordance interface definitely belong in separate threads.

So I will close this topic today (unless I get vetoed by others). Feel free to open new ones on any of the specifics.
Helen Brown
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