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#1 kcjimmyk

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 06:04 PM

When I copy and paste Greek from Accordance to Mellel (with the "export all characters in unicode format checked) , most of the fonts bring the circumflex accent over as a squiggly line (circumflex). Only a very few bring it over as a Greek circumflex. ζωῆς for example. In Helvetica or Times New Roman it brings it as the little "dome" shape that I am used to. But most of the other fonts do not (even if they support unicode). Im I just limited to the fonts like Helvetica and Times New Roman or am I missing something?

Edited by kcjimmyk, 12 February 2010 - 11:38 PM.

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#2 Joe Weaks

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 06:54 PM

When you paste in a character with a circumflex (whether by copying it from Accordance or by some other means), is designated with a specific unicode character code point. The character's code point for a character with a circumflex remains the same, regardless of which Font Typeface you switch it to, each of which will have slightly differently glyphs that render each unicode code point. The decisions of what the character 'looks like' are made by the creators of the font that you're using. Most Unicode fonts that include the Greek range use a tilde ~ for the circumflex, although some do use an inverted breve ̑ that we're used to in NT studies. So, if you prefer the inverted breve circumflex, then you need to stick with fonts that use that form. My favorite font is "Times" which comes pre-installed in Mac OS X.

Other fonts that use an inverted breve are Gentium, Galatia, Galilee, Kadmos, AttikaU.

Edited by Joe Weaks, 12 February 2010 - 07:01 PM.

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#3 Helen Brown

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 06:58 PM

And, if you choose a font that doesn't have its own Greek glyphs, those from Lucida Grande will be substituted. This allows the Greek to stay Greek, but it also explains why it looks identical in so many of the fonts.
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#4 Joe Weaks

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 07:03 PM

If these ideas are new to you, you might benefit from my Conceptual Introduction to Using Unicode.
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#5 kcjimmyk

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 08:43 PM

Thanks for the replies. I thought that would be the answer. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. I am somewhat familiar with the unicode font concept. And I am somewhat conversant on the subject of computers (I was a programmer and programming consultant for 30 years, albeit on large IBM systems) I have also been a "Mac-head" since 1985. but some of the Mac / PC concepts differ significantly from my experience on the Mid-Range and Mainframes.

Thanks again for the help. This forum is very responsive.

BTW I love Accordance

Jim
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#6 Outis

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 08:50 PM

I used to care about whether the font had a 'dome' shape or a 'tilde' sort of shape. Now, I just care that it looks decent when compared to english text around it.

However, one that I use every now and then which has the 'dome' look is porson. I looked for a link for it on the web and found nothing. So, I'm linking it here:

PORSON FONT

Hope this helps.
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#7 kcjimmyk

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 08:55 PM

I used to care about whether the font had a 'dome' shape or a 'tilde' sort of shape. Now, I just care that it looks decent when compared to english text around it.

However, one that I use every now and then which has the 'dome' look is porson. I looked for a link for it on the web and found nothing. So, I'm linking it here:

PORSON FONT

Hope this helps.



Thanks

Jim
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#8 Joe Weaks

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 10:01 PM

Now, I just care that it looks decent when compared to english text around it.

That has been one of my main criteria as well. It is for that reason that I have found "Times" to be an excellent choice. The whole document can be in "Times" and the kerning and leading is seamless, and it uses an inverted breve and the readability is great, unlike some fonts such as the SBLGreek.
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#9 Outis

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 10:25 PM

I mostly use "Adobe Arno Pro". The kerning and ligature stuff is really nice. Of course, it doesn't look good with the hebrew. But, with the greek, it looks great.

I haven't tried Times. When I use 'Times New Roman' it looks really ugly.

----Hmm. Just tried Times. Pretty nice looking. I have two reservations though:

1) The kappas look really weird.

2) The kerning looks strange when using bold-italic. (just try "ἀπέστειλεν" and see how it looks in your text editor)

Other than that, it seems like a good font to use for greek stuff.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Hmmm, how well does it port to PC documents? e.g. if you made a .rtf file and the opened it up on word for PC, would it still look all-right in Times?

And BTW, if you like the look of Times, Linux Libertine might be a good choice too.
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#10 Joe Weaks

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 11:02 PM

When I use 'Times New Roman' it looks really ugly.

That's because 'Times New Roman' does not include much of the Extended Greek Unicode range, so vowels with more complex diacriticals are being substituted with a different font (probably Lucida Grande), and look horrible as a result.

...tried Times... the kerning looks strange when using bold-italic.

The kerning isn't good in that instant, but then again, it is rarely desirable to use bold and italic at the same time in any context. Many typefaces won't even let you do that (and for good reason).

... how well does it port to PC documents? e.g. if you made a .rtf file and the opened it up on word for PC, would it still look all-right in Times?

This is a loaded question. Times New Roman, for instance, has the full range of Greek Extended Unicode on Windows, even though it doesn't on Macs (same for Arial). Times is an Apple font so not sure about it on the Windows side. Still, word processors do a decent job often of substituting similar fonts.
Irregardless, you need to assume spacing and such will look different for every font (Greek or otherwise) when moving from a Mac to a PC. The best way to transfer a document is using PDF format. It is the ideal solution if the goal is not to distribute an editable document, since it will look nearly identical in each instance.
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#11 Outis

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 11:06 PM

Good food for thought.

thanks for the reply.
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#12 Tom

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 03:46 PM

Irregardless, . . .

Joe, please highlight word, control + click and select "look up in dictionary." :)
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