39 replies to this topic

[D.S.Moses Nickerson]

I second this.

Computers and/or programs are most distracting (and annoying) when they are slow for whatever reason. Apple, and especially Accordance, has spoiled me. But if a certain speed/level of performance is possible, should I accept/expect anything less?

I heartily concur. Accordance is a small oasis from temptations to grow angry and throw sinfully motivated projectiles through Windows based computers and unfortunate Windows ports to OSX.

[mballai]

I don't even bother with a desktop Bible program anymore if I just want to look at the Bible. ESV Online is just fine and I've got the ESV Study Bible right there too. When I start a Bible study program I want to be into it. If I am in a hurry, it's my attitude. I can't blame the program for my impatience or my lack of understanding of how to do a search.

[Robb Brunansky]

I don't even bother with a desktop Bible program anymore if I just want to look at the Bible. ESV Online is just fine and I've got the ESV Study Bible right there too. When I start a Bible study program I want to be into it. If I am in a hurry, it's my attitude. I can't blame the program for my impatience or my lack of understanding of how to do a search.

I'm not a huge fan of online Bibles (although I am thankful they are available). I find the interfaces too limiting, and using online Bibles is less efficient than using Bibles saved on my computer in an application designed for Bible study. People who want an efficient program are not necessarily in a hurry. I have a certain amount of time to study, and I want to maximize what I accomplish in that amount of time. Waiting on an application to process is almost always non-productive time. It's not even suited for meditation. The Bible commands believers to redeem the time, and having a Bible application that is efficient in its processing of tasks and data is helpful to that end.

[DWFrancis]

I don't even bother with a desktop Bible program anymore if I just want to look at the Bible. ESV Online is just fine and I've got the ESV Study Bible right there too. When I start a Bible study program I want to be into it. If I am in a hurry, it's my attitude. I can't blame the program for my impatience or my lack of understanding of how to do a search.

Well if you have the ESV study bible and ESV strongs. Try this. On my computer (I will admit my connection is slow, only a little better than dial up). Double click and you should be set to go with this layout.

-Dan

Attached Files

•  ESV Study bible.zip   15.65K   37 downloads

[syoung]

"I don't even bother with a desktop Bible program anymore if I just want to look at the Bible. ESV Online is just fine and I've got the ESV Study Bible right there too. When I start a Bible study program I want to be into it. If I am in a hurry, it's my attitude. I can't blame the program for my impatience or my lack of understanding of how to do a search."

However, in original language work, efficiency of searches is important. This is because we are doing a lot of complex searches many, many times a day.

Accordance is an excellent tool for doing this. It is efficient and its search tools are powerful. Eg. Finding ALLUSIONS (not direct quotes) in one biblical text to another is possible with accordance in a very short amount of time.

Our desire for efficiency isn't about personal moral failure or impatience or anything like that. It is about getting done what needs to be done. It is about doing the best exegetical work that we can do with the time that we have been given.

[Boris Repschinski]

What functionality is missing. When this thread began they were in beta and announced that all features were implemented and were just working out bugs. It is now out of beta and shipping. It's a fine time to compare.

Printing, copying from search result lists, notes, handouts, moving search results into passage lists ...

As I said before, these things are likely to be implemented, but they are not there yet. Besides this, the morphological search gui is still seriously buggy in Logos.

BR

[Robb Brunansky]

Printing, copying from search result lists, notes, handouts, moving search results into passage lists ...

As I said before, these things are likely to be implemented, but they are not there yet. Besides this, the morphological search gui is still seriously buggy in Logos.

BR

But, in all fairness, it is the shipping version. We are comparing two shipping versions of Accordance and Logos. It only highlights how inferior Logos is to say that their SHIPPING version is lacking all of these rather basic features. Maybe in 6 months it will have these features, but I am certain in 6 months Accordance will have new features as well.

[Ulf]

As a mere amateur among professionals I hesitate to comment, however I work in software development and have a couple of points:

1. Speed isn't important, lack of it is. In other words, like Dr. J mentioned above, when you notice the program then the program itself becomes an impediment. Accordance may not be the bee's knees when it comes to the UI, but once you know the program just a bit--not necessarily as an expert user--it fades away and leaves you with the raw subject matter you're interested in.

2. I bought Logos. I like the UI (but detest the front page). But it is slooooow. I have a late model 15 inch MBP i7 with 8GB RAM. It doesn't come faster than that. And it's slow. Now it may be a second from choosing the passage guide to it appearing, but to me it is glacial. Double or triple-clicking in Accordance is done without thinking about cost.

3. While Logos doesn't beachball me, the need to have all those progress indicators spinning makes everything seem slower, not faster. Bad design choice.

3. I like the Logos iPad app, and it's a nice way to read the Logos material offline. But if that's all I'm going to use it for then it becomes very expensive.

4. I do like Logos product mix and differentiation, far simpler than Accordance. I cannot begin to count the hours I've spent reading packages, upgrades and other options on the Accordance website. Logos wins that one hands down in my book.

5. Finally, Accordance has given me a completely different workflow than I thought I would have. I actually study in a real bible (the HCSB Minister's Bible, just lovely). I actually use it to read, highlight/mark and study in, and use Accordance for lightning-fast lookup. What I have in front of me in the physical world is reflected in Accordance, and all the support material is at hand.

I really want to like Logos (and after paying a lot of money I should), but I'm finding it hard. Accordance, on the other hand, may not be as pretty, but it fits me really well.

my .02 FWIW

[Denny]

I am a recent port to Accordance that was exclusively a Logos user for the past decade. A couple of years ago I got my first Mac and never looked back. Logos first attempt at a Mac app was a big disappointment. Their second attempt has hope but after upgrading over a year ago with the promise of a true Mac app (which has proven not to be true) and my library on my mobile device ( which is the reason I got an iPhone last January and this promise is also not true as all of my logos library is not available in the cloud)I finally lost patience with them and decided to try Accordance. I am in the midst of a learning curve but so far I am very impressed with what I see. The Podcasts are helpful and the speed is amazing. I too will eventually use both programs when Logos can get their Mac act together but for now I am happy to have a bible study app (and a mobile one to boot) that lets me do what I need efficiently and speedily. I'm glad to have made the jump, I didn't realize what I was missing.

[Timothy Jenney]

I am a recent port to Accordance that was exclusively a Logos user for the past decade. A couple of years ago I got my first Mac and never looked back. Logos first attempt at a Mac app was a big disappointment. Their second attempt has hope but after upgrading over a year ago with the promise of a true Mac app (which has proven not to be true) and my library on my mobile device ( which is the reason I got an iPhone last January and this promise is also not true as all of my logos library is not available in the cloud)I finally lost patience with them and decided to try Accordance. I am in the midst of a learning curve but so far I am very impressed with what I see. The Podcasts are helpful and the speed is amazing. I too will eventually use both programs when Logos can get their Mac act together but for now I am happy to have a bible study app (and a mobile one to boot) that lets me do what I need efficiently and speedily. I'm glad to have made the jump, I didn't realize what I was missing.

Welcome to Accordance, Denny! I'm pleased you found our podcasts helpful. You'll also find our forums a friendly, helpful place. I think we've got the greatest group of users in the world. Be sure to ask if you get stuck, someone is always willing to help.

[Bob Deacon]

Welcome to Accordance, Denny! I'm pleased you found our podcasts helpful. You'll also find our forums a friendly, helpful place. I think we've got the greatest group of users in the world. Be sure to ask if you get stuck, someone is always willing to help.

Allow me to add my welcome. I also am a "switcher" and I simply love Accordance. You will like it very much here. The product is great and the people are great. Welcome!

Bob

[A. Smith]

If one more reply will make a difference, I'll add my two cents.

First, why I love Accordance: We share a common philosophy. For me, the text is central. Even more so, the original text is central. Whether I'm doing biblical studies or comparing extrabiblical texts, it is the text that is central. I love that accordance makes this clear from the first start up of a new install. I am not a scholar, but I am scholarly in my work as a preacher and teacher. I live in the original languages. I love using a program that is designed for mac, trusted by scholars and right for me:). Seriously. Accordance doesn't have the library that Logos does; but I don't need it to. Others do; but I'm not using my bible study program as a digital reader. I use the program for tasks that would be difficult, time consuming or impossible with paper books. If I want a commentary or some spiritual formation lit or 'christian living' fluff, I'll pull one off the shelf. I love the ability to take notes and tie them to the text. This has made my study and prep extremely efficient. I am in the process of transferring all my .doc and .pages notes into accordance as we speak. This is a project I've been working on since I got the program. I love the speed and backwards compatibility. I recently got a new mac (last summer) so I'm up to the intel/dual core standard now. But for a long time I was using a powerbook g4 and accordance was flawless. At the bottom of it all, I see two trends for those who love accordance. First, like I mentioned, most who use accordance share the accordance philosophy of text centered study. Second, the things we love about accordance are many of the same things we love about mac: beautiful design, quick speed, minimal fluff, stability . . . it just works. One final note--about apple and accordance--they both share outstanding customer service. Thankfully Accordance doesn't charge me $30 for a service call, but whenever I do call either one, they solve the issue. Quickly.

Second, about Logos and comparison. I used logos a bit when I was on a PC. I was using an older PC and Logos ran like garbage, It was RIDICULOUSLY slow (of course, it was on XP, so what could I expect?). I found the interface very confusing and congested. I couldn't tell where my text was and what was going on for quite a wile. Accordance has a learning curve, too. But this was unacceptable to me. Again we're back to the philosophy issue. I just don't like Logos' approach. Another issue for me was the choice of resources and available packages. Admittedly, the accordance package structure takes some getting used to (and they've improved it recently). However, for all the resources that Logos offers, I couldn't find a reasonably priced package or set of modules that would include everything I needed. The last thing I'll say is about customer service. In my experience, logos is a joke. It's like calling for Microsoft support--it's hard to get and when you do get it, it doesn't work. A great example is from ETS 2010. Logos had their huge mac display up (you can tell they're fighting hard against Accordance) and I asked for some demos and to see some specific products. The guy I talked to didn't know how to do the things i was asking for and didn't know anything about the resources I was looking for. What a joke! Why come to the show if you don't know the product? Surely there are more qualified people working for Logos. Why weren't they there? This put a VERY bad taste in my mouth, especially after my previous experience with logos on pc.

Having said all of that, I am ashamed to admit I will be ordering logos for mac just so that I can get the lexham discourse NT materials. There is a good price on the package and I don't have to waste time and money on the other garbage. I wish I could do this in accordance, but since Steve Runge works for Logos, I don't see this resource coming to accordance any time soon. I hate having to do this, but I need/want these resources. What choice do I have?

ps. One thing I thought of. I, for one, am glad that accordance is considered the more 'academic' software. That tells me that it can be trusted and is reliable. Even if I don't want to do what scholars do, I know I'm in good hands.

[TJ Luoma]

I have one of those coffee mugs with a saying "Drink Coffee. Do Stupid Things Faster With More Energy!" I've never been convinced that raw speed is a particularly noteworthy achievement when one is supposed to meditate on the Word day and night. If you know what you are doing with either program, you can do what you want in roughly the same amount of time. What's laudable about Logos 4 is that it displays resources for all of the categories that should be brought to bear on a passage. We have tunnel vision in our reflections--there's a reason to consider these things. So is it a case of the Bible not being central or do we appeal to our attention deficits in the matter?

"roughly the same amount of time" is inaccurate if your hardware is more than a 2 years old.

I have a 2007 MacBook Pro with 3GB of RAM (most it can take). Logos 4 is slow enough that I get frustrated using it.

I have (correction: my wife has :-) a 2008 MacBook Pro with 4GB of RAM (most it can take). Logos 4 is fast enough for me to use it.

I don't have speed issues with Accordance on either machine.

If your hardware is less than 2 years old, Logos 4 may be "roughly the same amount of time" as Accordance, but how many pastors do you know with computers that are more than 2 years old?

[RayD]

I finally lost patience with them and decided to try Accordance. I am in the midst of a learning curve but so far I am very impressed with what I see. ...I'm glad to have made the jump, I didn't realize what I was missing.

Right there with you Denny.

I just made the switch last week. Very thankful that Logos refunded me all the funds that I invested in Logos4 in the past year. It was very honorable of them. Afforded me the opportunity to switch which would not have been possible otherwise. For me the clear difference between Accordance & Logos4 is speed and efficiency in study. Logos4, a tool that was intended to enhance my study and prep for sermons, was actually getting in the way. Which became increasingly frustrating over the last several months. Love the folks over at Logos and am praying for them, but am sure glad to have some software that returns results faster than I can think.

[DWFrancis]

Right there with you Denny.

I just made the switch last week. Very thankful that Logos refunded me all the funds that I invested in Logos4 in the past year. It was very honorable of them. Afforded me the opportunity to switch which would not have been possible otherwise. For me the clear difference between Accordance & Logos4 is speed and efficiency in study. Logos4, a tool that was intended to enhance my study and prep for sermons, was actually getting in the way. Which became increasingly frustrating over the last several months. Love the folks over at Logos and am praying for them, but am sure glad to have some software that returns results faster than I can think.

In the end both are Good programs. Accordance is hands down the fastest, and in my mind easiest to use efficiently, I know I may be in a minority here, on the other board, someone was complaining and got his money back bought accordance and then complained it was unusable and came back to Logos. I say this only to say each platform has it's fans and and it's good and bad points. I have many more resources in Logos but still when items are available for the same price in both I still tend to go for Accordance it is silly how every book in a set has to be it's own module in Logos. While Logos has a far more functional iOS app at the moment, I am sure the features promised us in accordance will be implemented ASAP and I will say the ACCORD iOS app is at least not like trying to read a book under water. Accordance 1.0.1 is fast and works fine just not the features I had hoped for, not even simple copy functions. But like I said i have little doubt it will be coming soon.

-Dan

[danzac]

Logos has a far more functional iOS app at the moment

Is this a joke? I'd say perhaps that Olive Tree's app is more polished, but not Logos's!

[Bob Deacon]

Is this a joke? I'd say perhaps that Olive Tree's app is more polished, but not Logos's!

Agreed!

[DWFrancis]

Agreed!

I would disagree while I won;t say i try using Logos app much you have the passage guide, word study, and text comparison. At this moment Accordance is blazingly fast but the features promised are yet coming. I have little doubt Accordance will soon outshine Logos app, but for now they are about a tie in my mind, with the exception that ACC. is self contained which means it will be better in the long run (for me anyway). And I would hope a mature program like Olivetree would be more polished it is nearly as old as the iphone itself and far older in the fact that they were doing mobile (POCKET PC / PALM) Bible software since well before 2002.

-Dan

[Julie Falling]

I debated whether to jump in here, having had no experience with Logos. However, I can tell you what I love about Accordance:

1 - Like the Mac, it just works. I don't have to jump through a bunch of hoops. I very rarely have the app freeze on me. Yes, there is a learning curve, but I learned how to do what I wanted to do with Accordance before the Training DVD was released. The Training DVD and podcasts (thank you, Dr. J) have been a lot of help.

2 - Excellent support. What use is a good product if there is no help available to deal with issues that naturally arise? Helen has "taken over" my computer a couple of times and the problems were identified and resolved.

3 - I am not an academic, just a serious Bible student who teaches youth Sunday school. Accordance has been a huge help in my study of the English NT and in my teaching.

4 - I begin the 2nd semester of 3rd year NT Greek next week. I have thoroughly enjoyed my studies. I have also had several advantages over my fellow-students:

• I'm old and went to school back when English grammar was taught;
• I had three years of Latin in high school;
• I have Accordance.

Accordance and the parsing of the Greek text made it easy for me to do my work and check the parsing before class (didn't do that the 1st year). I disciplined myself NOT to use Accordance as a crutch, but as a resource. I would also search for a particular word so that I could see it in its many permutations, thus making it easier for me to recognize some of the weird ones! Though I have just been auditing because of cost, I've taken every exam and written every paper. Accordance has been a significant aid to my success.

One more thing – (that ought to be considered): the authors of all three Greek textbooks we have used are Accordance users.

• Basics of Biblical Greek by William D. Mounce
• Basics of New Testament Syntax by Daniel B. Wallace
• Koine Greek Reader by Rodney J. Decker

That in itself is quite a recommendation.

Julia
Accordance user since 2003
MacBook Pro 2.53 GHz Core 2 Duo
iPhone 3GS

Edited by Julie Falling, 09 January 2011 - 03:46 PM.

[Timothy Jenney]

I disciplined myself NOT to use Accordance as a crutch, but as a resource.

So pleased to hear you are happy with our training and support, Julie. It's a high priority for us.

I am also encouraged by your discipline not to use Accordance as a crutch in learning Greek. Frankly, I have worried about that possibility. It is so easy to access information in Accordance I've been afraid that some people might abandon learning Greek altogether—instead of using Accordance to whet their appetites for further language learning.