8 replies to this topic

[Ekklesia Foundation]

My concern is to also work with Greek Manuscript as a module
in which William Tyndale used, as his words and work
had no small influence on the patriarchs of the Independence Declaration and genius American Constitution.

Having lived and worked outside the United States, more years than in America, have found groups which predate the catholic/protestant church [ even inside the British Isles ]

Having through the years read all the works of Tyndale there were multi reasons why both the protestant and catholic church wanted his death.

Do you now have the tagged manuscript in Greek in which Tyndale used? Have made extensive research among Greek born scholars whom find subtle variations from the Nestle.

If so do we download and pay online, or need to
phone up this U.S. number ?

As a pupil of Greek ....

best wishes to ALL whom honor His Word in this new year.
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[Helen Brown]

On consultation with our Greek expert, Rex Koivisto, I received the following reply:


The closest GNT to the one used by Tyndale is the Textus Receptus: GNT-TR.

The TR we are using is the one published by the Trinitarian Bible Society in England. It is a later version of the Erasmus text, representing the 4th folio edition of Theodore Beza of 1598. They chose this version to represent the Erasmus TR since it is the version used by the KJV translators. History:

• Erasmus' 1st Edition (Folio Greek/Latin Diglot): Basil, 1516 "thrown together rather than edited" (Erasmus) based on c. 6 later mss in order to beat the Complutensian Polyglot into the marketplace.
• 2d Edition 1519. More careful, omits Comma Johanneum.
• 3d Edition 1522. Reincludes Comma Johanneum.
• 4th Edition 1527. Triglot improving GNT based on comparison to the Complutensian Polyglot.
• 5th Edition 1535. Returns to Diglot, excluding Vulgate column.
  
  
• Stephanus' editions of Erasmus: 4 editions: Paris/Geneva, 1546-1551.
  
  
• Beza's editions of Erasmus: 9 editions 1565-1604.
  
  
• The Elzevir Brothers' editions of Erasmus: 7 editions. Leyden, 1565-1604. The second edition of 1633 is the first one to use the term "textus receptus" to reflect the broad acceptance of the Erasmus text and their conformity to it.

Tyndale's English NT was translated in 1525, while he was in Germany. Tyndale would have had the 3rd edition of Erasmus at his disposal, at most. He also consulted Martin Luther's 1st German translation which was published in 1522.

The net result is that there is very little difference (largely orthography) between the five editions of Erasmus, the four of Stephanus, the nine of Beza, and the seven of the Elzevir brothers. All had to conform as much as possible to Erasmus, because, by being the first published, Erasmus was considered the standard to conform to.


Thank you, Rex, for this excellent summary of the history of Erasmus' GNT and the Textus Receptus.

[Bill Combs]

According to my research for a class I teach on the subject, Tyndale used, for his 1526 NT, Erasmus’ 3rd edition (1522) of the Greek NT, Erasmus’ Latin version (printed alongside his Greek NT), the Vulgate, and Luther’s German NT of 1522.

Bill Combs

[Ekklesia Foundation]

The closest GNT to the one used by Tyndale is the Textus Receptus: GNT-TR.
The TR we are using is the one published by the Trinitarian Bible Society in England.\[*]Stephanus' editions of Erasmus: 4 editions: Paris/Geneva, 1546-1551.

[ On a personal note this Foundation never has proposed to be an expert in Greek nor Hebrew.
We have however helped coin new words in Asian languages from the Greek.
Due to critical health issues we had to curb back since 1989'.
Was only days out of CCU in 2000, when we purchased our early Accordace module ]

Rex Koivisto has the conclusions were fairly much as our own, from the scholars from witin Greece and the British Isles, we have collected scripts over these past thirty five years but is always nice to see this online via notebook computer.

I have Tyndales unedited OT and NT at my side as we write with his personal notes.

Have received several private e-mails from all over, on the same matter since June 2005, whom as myself are not comfortable with the vouge of the day,
several prefer Hodges and Farstadt Majority Text

My question was only to see what as of 2006 ACCORDANCE
has available, is your GNT-TR tagged ?
As to the Majority Text or you saying the two are virtual the same?

Thank you

[Helen Brown]

Accordance currently offers the following tagged GNT versions:

• GNT-T -- Nestle Aland 27
• GNT-TR -- Textus Receptus
• GNT-WH -- Westcott & Hort
• GNT-TIS -- Tischendorf
• GNT-BEZ -- Codex Bezae

and the following untagged GNT versions:

• GNT-NA -- Nestle Aland 27 text only
• GNT-TRS -- Textus Receptus with Strongs
• GNTM -- Majority text only

Therefore in in my previous post we recommended the GNT-TR for your purposes.

This page on the Accordance website lists all the Greek texts and tools, and lets you follow the links to see the details and screenshots as well as purchase information.

[Ekklesia Foundation]

[quote name='Helen Brown' date='Jan 2 2006, 12:50 PM' post='1780']

Therefore in in my previous post we recommended the GNT-TR for your purposes.

***

Yes, am aware of your modules, as we have twelve of these to date from year 2000. The TRINITARIAN am very aware, as we have worked out of the British Isles since 1978.

No, the GNT-TR you refer in your system 'based upon the Stephanus' 1550 when the manuscript by Tyndale in my possession are the early 1530's
Explain please.

Even so may yet order this over time. The issues are logistics.
The only CD's we had were attained in a Bookstore in year 2000, all other products from Accordance were downloaded.
Is there another alternative to attain your version of GNT-TR than on ten dollar cd? Completely understand the unlock code is fifty.

Edited by Ekklesia Foundation, 04 January 2006 - 07:03 AM.

[Ekklesia Foundation]

Even today one does not walk in a Christian Book Shop in the British Isles and purchase Tyndale over the counter.

From our notes from within Greece
Bill Combs has a vailid point as to the Erasmus text.

The Textus Receptus grew out of Erasmus' several editions later.

This has importance as William Tyndale did not just pull key English phrases out of the air.
Byzantine Greek Bible Manuscripts show deviations, however small this may seem
which gave Tyndale a view ahead of his peers of the early 1500's.

Thus we will hold off on this order at this time,
as on this occasion wish to be as close to the precise text
Tyndale translated from as possible.
Thank you.

Edited by Ekklesia Foundation, 09 January 2006 - 06:24 AM.

[Alistair]

Helen,

I think you'll find that Erasmus' first edition was printed in Basel, not Basil.

The story goes that Swiss printer Johann Frobern had heard about the Complutensian Polyglot, and contacted Erasmus to get out an edition quickly so he could be first to press. This is why Erasmus only took seven months to compile his text, "thrown together rather than edited". The first edition also contained "hundreds" of printing errors.

Erasmus' first and second editions were diglots, containing Erasmus' own Latin translation alongside the Greek. Part of the outcry against Erasmus was because of this Latin translation, daring to supercede the Vulgate.

The third edition contained the comma Johanneum, but Erasmus removed it for the 4th and 5th. But Tyndale used the 3rd edition for his translation, so the comma Johanneum continued in the English Bibles of the sixteenth century and into the AV of 1611.

Erasmus/Frobern also obtained a special licence from the pope giving them exclusive publishing rights for the Greek NT: this is probably what delayed the publication of the Complutensian Polyglot, which was not available until 1622.

~A

Ekklesia Foundation,

PDF facsimiles of Erasmus' 1522, 1518 and 1516 editions used to be available from bibles.org.uk.

Unfortunately "This site is currently not available."


~A

[Ekklesia Foundation]

>>Erasmus' first edition was printed in Basel

That too has been my own understanding
just a few days spent a few hours in Montreal, Canada
with an Orthodox Coptic

whom as we have real concern over the Script.

Then from fellowship within Athens, Greece given to understand
there will soon be an CD out of the Orthodox script
dating back to time in which Tyndale lived

However should these fine folks at Oak Tree
produce a module of Erasmus' third edition
place me in the que to attain, please!


Meanwhile let me say, though slightly off topic
we enjoy the 7.0 version software of Accordance.
Well done!