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#1 Nathan Parker

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 12:40 PM

Any chance we'll see the SBL Greek New Testament as an Accordance Module or even a User Bible? Logos just released it for free, and it'd be a great addition to Accordance. Looks really neat from what I've seen about it.

http://www.sblgnt.com/download/

Thanks!

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#2 Rick Bennett

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 01:33 PM

Any chance we'll see the SBL Greek New Testament as an Accordance Module or even a User Bible? Logos just released it for free, and it'd be a great addition to Accordance. Looks really neat from what I've seen about it.

http://www.sblgnt.com/download/

Thanks!


We don't currently support User Bibles in Greek (nor any language which uses non-Roman characters). We would like to offer it to our users, but we did not hear anything about it until its release (or rather the notice that went out to SBL registrants), and we have so many projects underway right now that it does not look like we will be able to work on it until it dies down a bit for us (assuming we receive permission to do so). Given the ethos of the project, how it is being positioned as an alternative to the UBS/NA27, and its availability in Sword format it is unfortunate that the SBL did not contact us (nor any other software company that I know of) to release it simultaneously; the end result of which would have benefited so many more users globally who will no doubt find this to be a useful resource.

Rick Bennett
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#3 Mary Hinkle Shore

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 03:02 PM

We don't currently support User Bibles in Greek (nor any language which uses non-Roman characters).


Rick, I'm thinking that the unicode font SBL is published in might actually function like Roman characters to the User Bible feature. Am I wrong about this? I can use Greek Polytonic (the unicode font that shows up when I type on my Mac using the Greek language keyboard) and browsers apparently think it is whatever Roman fonts (Arial, Times New Roman, etc.) I was typing in before I switched keyboards.

The value added for me of the SBL Bible is that students with any brand of Bible software--or none--on their own computers will be able to copy and paste Greek into papers in a unicode font that can be read by other people with no Greek fonts installed (or fonts from a different software program). Fonts are a perennial problem when students are working in small groups or sharing papers in an exegetical workshop session and someone forgot to export unicode.

Edited by Mary Hinkle Shore, 29 October 2010 - 03:03 PM.

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#4 Rick Bennett

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 03:07 PM

Rick, I'm thinking that the unicode font SBL is published in might actually function like Roman characters to the User Bible feature. Am I wrong about this? I can use Greek Polytonic (the unicode font that shows up when I type on my Mac using the Greek language keyboard) and browsers apparently think it is whatever Roman fonts (Arial, Times New Roman, etc.) I was typing in before I switched keyboards.

The value added for me of the SBL Bible is that students with any brand of Bible software--or none--on their own computers will be able to copy and paste Greek into papers in a unicode font that can be read by other people with no Greek fonts installed (or fonts from a different software program). Fonts are a perennial problem when students are working in small groups or sharing papers in an exegetical workshop session and someone forgot to export unicode.


I'm not sure if it will trick it, but it won't work as it should.

FWIW, You can also download Unicode versions of the GNT and MT from Tyndale House.

Rick Bennett
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#5 R. Mansfield

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 03:27 PM

Any chance we'll see the SBL Greek New Testament as an Accordance Module or even a User Bible? Logos just released it for free, and it'd be a great addition to Accordance. Looks really neat from what I've seen about it.

http://www.sblgnt.com/download/

Thanks!


I understand Oak Tree's inability to take on any new projects right before ETS/SBL, but Nathan why don't you (or someone else who has more time than me at the present) simply create an Accordance User Tool from one of the available sources of the text. Accordance User Tools receive Unicode Greek just fine. You'd have to paste it in a chapter or maybe even a few chapters at a time, but with a little patience, I bet it could be done in an afternoon, even adding in headings for New Testament book divisions.

Or if someone were really ambitious, a user notes file could be created so that it would scroll along in parallel with regular biblical texts. Of course, here you'd have to paste the text a verse at a time, so this would be a bit more tedious and time consuming.

Either of these is a good solution if someone wants to have the text in Accordance right now and is willing to spend a few hours preparing it. From what I read of the licensing, it's perfectly allowable to reproduce it in text or electronic form as long as it's not sold. So a User Tool or User Notes version of the SBLGNT could be easily shared among Accordance users.

And then who knows, maybe an official Accordance version would appear somewhere down the road.

Rick Mansfield

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#6 Mary Hinkle Shore

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 03:40 PM

I understand Oak Tree's inability to take on any new projects right before ETS/SBL, but Nathan why don't you (or someone else who has more time than me at the present) simply create an Accordance User Tool from one of the available sources of the text. Accordance User Tools receive Unicode Greek just fine. You'd have to paste it in a chapter or maybe even a few chapters at a time, but with a little patience, I bet it could be done in an afternoon, even adding in headings for New Testament book divisions.

Or if someone were really ambitious, a user notes file could be created so that it would scroll along in parallel with regular biblical texts. Of course, here you'd have to paste the text a verse at a time, so this would be a bit more tedious and time consuming.

Either of these is a good solution if someone wants to have the text in Accordance right now and is willing to spend a few hours preparing it. From what I read of the licensing, it's perfectly allowable to reproduce it in text or electronic form as long as it's not sold. So a User Tool or User Notes version of the SBLGNT could be easily shared among Accordance users.

And then who knows, maybe an official Accordance version would appear somewhere down the road.


I played around a little, copying and pasting from an xml version of the SBL text to the User Tool. Most of the Greek shows up, but question marks appear where some apparatus sigla should be. All in all, creating the Tool is a clunkier task than I'm willing to spend time with. I didn't know about the Tyndale resources, Rick. Thanks for that. -Mary
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#7 R. Mansfield

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 03:45 PM

I played around a little, copying and pasting from an xml version of the SBL text to the User Tool. Most of the Greek shows up, but question marks appear where some apparatus sigla should be. All in all, creating the Tool is a clunkier task than I'm willing to spend time with.


I saw the stray question marks, too, when I was copying and pasting from [another program].

Anyway, I believe they could be removed easily enough with the search and replace function in the Accordance Search menu. A question mark would not appear in the Greek text since a semicolon is used for that purpose.

Rick Mansfield

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#8 Rod Decker

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 04:07 PM

Given the ethos of the project, how it is being positioned as an alternative to the UBS/NA27, and its availability in Sword format it is unfortunate that the SBL did not contact us (nor any other software company that I know of) to release it simultaneously


See my blog for more info (url below); since it's a Logos project more than an SBL project, I'm not surprised they are the first to release it. It is going to be available in BibleWorks soon. I haven't decided what to think of it yet. Holmes is certainly qualified, but this edition may have the same reputation as does Zondervan's Reader's Greek text--just enough different that you always wonder where you need to check a full critical apparatus (or at least as "full" as NA provides). It may be used by beginning students for some things, but without grammatical tagging it isn't going to be very useful in Logos for study purposes. The only thing it would provide is a reasonably current critical text that's free; certainly better than TR, etc., but not nearly as useful as some assume.
Rodney J. Decker, ThD
Professor of NT & Greek
Baptist Bible Seminary
NTResources.com/blog/

#9 R. Mansfield

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 04:22 PM

It may be used by beginning students for some things, but without grammatical tagging it isn't going to be very useful in Logos for study purposes.


For what it's worth, the Logos edition is already grammatically tagged. Thus the timing is unfortunate. Even though the text is available for free, I doubt there's any way that Oak Tree could produce a comparable Accordance module with equivalent tagging anytime soon, even if they were interested in doing so. Of course, obviously, I don't speak for Oak Tree. I'm just making assumptions based on what I know about this time of year as ETS/SBL approaches.

Unfortunately, I'm not going to make it to SBL this year, but it would be interesting to know if there's any buzz among NT scholars about the SBLGNT or if it's completely ignored. Considering the fact that Oak Tree would have to put in significant work to tag it, and then be unable to recoup their efforts monetarily, perhaps it's best that it's something that cannot be pursued right now anyway.

Edited by R. Mansfield, 29 October 2010 - 04:22 PM.

Rick Mansfield

Technology Evangelist

Accordance Bible Software

 

 

Gear for running Accordance:

OS X

2012 15" MacBook Pro (retina) - 2.7 Ghz Core i7, 16 GB RAM, 750 GB SSD, Yosemite

Windows

2014 15.6" Acer R7-572 - 1.6 Ghz Core i5, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB mSATA, 1 TB HDD, Windows 8.1

2013 8" Dell Venue 8 Pro - 1.33 Ghz Atom, 2 GB RAM, 64 GB eMMC, Windows 8.1

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#10 Rod Decker

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 04:27 PM

For what it's worth, the Logos edition is already grammatically tagged. ... Considering the fact that Oak Tree would have to put in significant work to tag it, and then be unable to recoup their efforts monetarily...


I didn't realize it was tagged, but that makes sense of some other comments I've heard; I think what they did is cross-link it with an existing tagged interlinear text, so it has the same tagging as that text. There would have to be some manual adjustments and good proofing, but doing it via programming likely enabled a *relatively* quick project.
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NTResources.com/blog/

#11 Rick Bennett

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 04:38 PM

See my blog for more info (url below); since it's a Logos project more than an SBL project, I'm not surprised they are the first to release it. It is going to be available in BibleWorks soon. I haven't decided what to think of it yet. Holmes is certainly qualified, but this edition may have the same reputation as does Zondervan's Reader's Greek text--just enough different that you always wonder where you need to check a full critical apparatus (or at least as "full" as NA provides). It may be used by beginning students for some things, but without grammatical tagging it isn't going to be very useful in Logos for study purposes. The only thing it would provide is a reasonably current critical text that's free; certainly better than TR, etc., but not nearly as useful as some assume.


I guess the reason for my initial reaction is that it is sponsored by the SBL and I assumed it was more their project. If that were the case then it would make no sense to exclude other platforms.

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#12 Rick Bennett

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 04:42 PM

I understand Oak Tree's inability to take on any new projects right before ETS/SBL, but Nathan why don't you (or someone else who has more time than me at the present) simply create an Accordance User Tool from one of the available sources of the text. Accordance User Tools receive Unicode Greek just fine. You'd have to paste it in a chapter or maybe even a few chapters at a time, but with a little patience, I bet it could be done in an afternoon, even adding in headings for New Testament book divisions.

Or if someone were really ambitious, a user notes file could be created so that it would scroll along in parallel with regular biblical texts. Of course, here you'd have to paste the text a verse at a time, so this would be a bit more tedious and time consuming.

Either of these is a good solution if someone wants to have the text in Accordance right now and is willing to spend a few hours preparing it. From what I read of the licensing, it's perfectly allowable to reproduce it in text or electronic form as long as it's not sold. So a User Tool or User Notes version of the SBLGNT could be easily shared among Accordance users.

And then who knows, maybe an official Accordance version would appear somewhere down the road.


Before anyone volunteers for this, give us a bit of time to sort this out. It will only involve a very minimal amount of effort to crate an un-tagged version. That would at least satisfy the most minimal interest in it. Then we could gauge the viability of investing in a tagged version.

Rick Bennett
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#13 Nathan Parker

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 07:28 PM

Before anyone volunteers for this, give us a bit of time to sort this out. It will only involve a very minimal amount of effort to crate an un-tagged version. That would at least satisfy the most minimal interest in it. Then we could gauge the viability of investing in a tagged version.


Sounds good. The tagging wouldn't be that much of a concern to me right now anyway. Putting an un-tagged copy out there would be a good start to see what kind of interest it generates, then if it does well, update it to a tagged version down the road.

Possibly go to SBL first as well and see what interest you find at SBL, get your hands on a physical copy, etc. Certainly no rush to get something out just because other platforms are doing it, but taking your time and sorting things out, Accordance can act on what will be best.

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