17 replies to this topic

[Lance]

1. Suggested improvement for text navigation screen: Make it so the buttons labelled "Genesis" and "Matthew" can be toggled between the start and finish of the respective testaments. So the first button would toggle between "Genesis" and "Malachi", and the second between "Matthew" and "Revelation".

2. Even better (IMO): The navigation screen is classically iOS, which is good for interface consistency. But for me it's not as efficient as the 'drill down' interface a la Olivetree - the one where you choose the book in the first screen, the chapter in the second ... So: would it be possible to provide both interfaces and a user setting to choose which one?

[Joel Brown]

Lance:

1) I'm not sure the point of toggling Malachi vs. just tapping Matthew? Also, What if I'm in Acts and want to jump to Matthew, not only down to Revelation?

2) Each interface has pros and cons. We may consider having an alternative interface similar to that one, choosable by the user. We went with this interface for a few reasons: a) It allows for incremental scrolling. With the wheels, since they open to where you are, it is extremely quick and efficient to scroll up and down chapters, books, or verses. May require less taps. The 'drill down' forces three taps every single time, after you've found where you want to tap. This way, you can just swipe to the book and immediately go, or swipe to the chapter and immediately go. You have other details, but you don't have to pick them every time. c) This is more of a user preference, but an arbitrary two-dimensional grid is much harder to navigate until you've memorized each position. I know for a fact that Romans is always lower in the list than Matthew. But, if we are on a grid, it may be off to the right or directly below or off to the left, depending on the distance and size of the grid. A linear layout is much more straightforward. So, even though it may take a couple of swipes of taps to get to the book you want, in the end it is often much faster than having to hunt for small buttons on some sort of grid. If anything, it is generally easier on the mind to be going to a known destination than hunting for the correct place.

But, we understand that much of this is user preference and may offer alternatives in the future.

[Lance]

Thanks, Joel. That all makes sense. As you say it's all personal taste etc.

I did think of the fact that Malachi and Matthew are very close, but 1st and last book per testament just seemed most logical on balance. However I did wonder about something around Ezekiel (or even Joel - you'd like that, eh? ;-) ), rather than Malachi. I just think a feature like that could provide more navigating efficiency, because it effectively adds another incremental level (we now have 1 and 10 .. this would add something around 25). Seems a good idea to me at least. But again it's probably personal style like the other one. Maybe we'll get comments for or against from others ... ?

I see what you mean about Acts --> Matthew. But then I might equally want to jump to 1 John, say. And Acts --> Matthew may be just as quick thumbing through the wheel.

[RayD]

Th Olivetree grid is wildly popular with their user base. Go read the reviews from folks that thought they removed it in BR5 - they were rabid. The beauty of it is that the whole grid is is your field of view. No memorization as Joel suggest is required. 3 taps, no matter where you want to head next. No spinning of multiple dials necessary. I understand the logic used by Accordance, but the extra buttons are unconventional and will be confusing to most as it was to me when I first saw them

Not sure if you realized it yet, but I love the grid and hope one day to see it in Accordance.

I'd humbly suggest Accordance glean from the amazing UI that BR5 has and adopt similar. Now that's the dream app, Accordance search capabilities coupled with Olivetree UI. I just might retire my Mac at that point and do all my sermon prep on the iPad.

Not complaints, expressing opinion.

Grace & peace,
Ray

Edited by RayD, 02 January 2011 - 06:26 AM.

[danzac]

I'm definitely siding with Ray on this and disagree with Joel. While your reasoning for the dials may be sound, in practice it is quite simply much slower to get to where you want to go, unless you just so happen to be going to the exact same chapter and verse in a different book :-). I'm thrilled to have Accordance on my iOS machines, but this was the aspect with which I was most disappointed. When I think of Accordance part of its charm is the speed, not only of its functions but of getting where I want to go. OliveTree clearly wins in the "getting where I want to go fast" department right now. Those dials should be used on apps that are asking you for the date or time, and that's it.

[Lance]

As the OP for this thread, I would certainly concur with Ray & danzac, in reaffirming my request for the Olivetree-style navigation interface. After a few more weeks using the Accordance iOS app, the spinning wheel interface is definitely the standout shortcoming in a generally masterfully built app.

[JonathanHuber]

As the OP for this thread, I would certainly concur with Ray & danzac, in reaffirming my request for the Olivetree-style navigation interface. After a few more weeks using the Accordance iOS app, the spinning wheel interface is definitely the standout shortcoming in a generally masterfully built app.

I don't really care for the Olivetree style. It's been a while since I used it, but I recall the chapter buttons changing size depending on how many chapters there were (cp Psalms vs Jude), so they weren't always in the same location. It also forced you to select the book again even if you just wanted to jump a few chapters. Pocketsword has a great interface with the chapter/verse numbers lined up on the right side, like selecting a letter/name in the iphone address book, but you still have to select the book again before you can switch chapters. None of this is a particularly big deal, but it's inefficient. That's the one advantage to the wheel: you can jump forward/backwards several chapters without having to re-select the book. If Accordance can find a way around this without using the wheels, then that might be ideal.

[RayD]

I don't really care for the Olivetree style. It's been a while since I used it, but I recall the chapter buttons changing size depending on how many chapters there were (cp Psalms vs Jude), so they weren't always in the same location. It also forced you to select the book again even if you just wanted to jump a few chapters. Pocketsword has a great interface with the chapter/verse numbers lined up on the right side, like selecting a letter/name in the iphone address book, but you still have to select the book again before you can switch chapters. None of this is a particularly big deal, but it's inefficient. That's the one advantage to the wheel: you can jump forward/backwards several chapters without having to re-select the book. If Accordance can find a way around this without using the wheels, then that might be ideal.

Hi Jonathan,
Not sure what version of Olivetree Biblereader you have, but it doesn't work that way in BR5. Here is a screenshot. Notice at the top of the Verse Chooser there are buttons that keep the context of where you are so you can quickly jump to a different Book, Chapter or Verse. It's very slick, only takes a couple clicks to get to the next location.

Blessings,
Ray

[JonathanHuber]

Hi Jonathan,
Not sure what version of Olivetree Biblereader you have, but it doesn't work that way in BR5. Here is a screenshot. Notice at the top of the Verse Chooser there are buttons that keep the context of where you are so you can quickly jump to a different Book, Chapter or Verse. It's very slick, only takes a couple clicks to get to the next location.

Blessings,
Ray

Hi Ray,

I just installed the latest version of the Olivetree biblereader (5.something) on my ipod touch, and while it looks different than the old UI, it also looks different than your iPad screenshot. As you mentioned, it's possible to just select the chapter, but selecting either a book or chapter still requires you to also select the next level(s) below that before returning to the text. It also seems to display all of the books in a scrollable list rather than a grid, though maybe that's a settings option I couldn't find. I won't be using that app, but I'm glad that it works for you. To each his own, I guess.

Jonathan

[Andy Crim]

Hi Ray,

I just installed the latest version of the Olivetree biblereader (5.something) on my ipod touch, and while it looks different than the old UI, it also looks different than your iPad screenshot. As you mentioned, it's possible to just select the chapter, but selecting either a book or chapter still requires you to also select the next level(s) below that before returning to the text. It also seems to display all of the books in a scrollable list rather than a grid, though maybe that's a settings option I couldn't find. I won't be using that app, but I'm glad that it works for you. To each his own, I guess.

Jonathan

Jonathan,

Drag the list down and then choose the optional view represented by the nine squares.

[RayD]

Jonathan,

Drag the list down and then choose the optional view represented by the nine squares.

Yeh.. it defaults to the "list" view and not the "grid" when first installed.

Just for the record, I am not soliciting for Olivetree. I am a new user of Accordance on my Mac and love it! My desire in my original post was to encourage Accordance to incorporate a similar grid on their iOS app. That would be the optimal iOS app, Accordance search & tools with an Olivetree like UI!

[Lance]

Just for the record, I am not soliciting for Olivetree.

For the same record, neither am I

That would be the optimal iOS app, Accordance search & tools with an Olivetree like UI!

Precisely

[Scott Knapp]

In all fairness we are only at version 1.0 and they are at version 5.0. Please give us at least a few versions to catch up.

Scott.

[circuitrider]

In all fairness we are only at version 1.0 and they are at version 5.0. Please give us at least a few versions to catch up.

Scott.

I keep reminding myself of that pertinent and exciting fact. Olivetree is a very mature app, I remember using it on my old Palm V! I have faith that in time the Accordance App will surpass anything that is out there.

That having been said, I would like to cast a vote for the option to use a grid type verse chooser. When I first saw it, I didn't think I would like it, the dial was much cooler looking and "appish". However, the grid seems quicker and more functional after having used it.

Just my 2 cents.
 palmv17.jpg   16.05K   14 downloads

Edited by circuitrider, 16 January 2011 - 06:20 PM.

[JSGilliom]

This is more of a user preference, but an arbitrary two-dimensional grid is much harder to navigate until you've memorized each position. I know for a fact that Romans is always lower in the list than Matthew. But, if we are on a grid, it may be off to the right or directly below or off to the left, depending on the distance and size of the grid. A linear layout is much more straightforward. So, even though it may take a couple of swipes of taps to get to the book you want, in the end it is often much faster than having to hunt for small buttons on some sort of grid. If anything, it is generally easier on the mind to be going to a known destination than hunting for the correct place.

In general I, too, prefer the linear approach over the grid. (I've used BR4, but not BR5.) The more I get used to using Accordance's verse chooser, the better I like it … partly because I tend to think "forward" or "backward" as I look up a passage much the same way I think of forward or backward from where I am in a paper Bible.

However, I am wondering if it would be advantageous to having the wheels be "completely circular." For example, spin up (swipe down with your finger … is "spin up" the correct way to say this? … the wheel is moving down … and in my mind I'm moving up in the list … so I say "spin up" …) from Genesis to Revelation and keep spinning up to move back in the books. Or spin up from the "1" in Psalms 1 to get to "150, 149, 148 …" And likewise spin down from the end (bottom) of each list to get back to the top (beginning), etc. I think I'd like these kind of completely circular spin wheels.

[Donald Stidwell]

I'm in favour of the grid for a very simple reason - using the wheels to jump around from one verse to another in another book is too slow! Baptist preachers like to jump all over the place in their sermons, and with the grid that Olive Tree users, it's easy to jump from (for example) Rev. 3:2 to Joel 1:2 to John 3:16. Using the wheel just doesn't allow that kind of quick jumping. Also in the RVR60 (the Spanish version I actually use in Church), you don't even get the labels on the wheels like you do in English versions (Old Testament/New Testament) so jumping around is truly impossible. I WANT to use Accordance with my iPhone in church, but I really can't, so I'm compelled to use Olive Tree's BR5 which is much quicker for navigation (even though the grid is in English even when using a Spanish Bible!).

[Guntis]

I also prefer grid. All Bible books fit into one screen (if there are no Apocryphal books included in that particular module), no scrolling needed!

[William Cross]

Another program that has very nice navigation is Tecarta. To read the chapter you are in you scroll down. To go to the next chapter or previous chapter you swipe left or right. To go back in history you swipe right with two fingers. Very intuitive. Tecarta also has wheel navigation or the three tap grid. But one thing it has that I haven't seen is predictive typing while entering a reference. It guesses what book you are entering and then switches the keyboard to numbers automatically to enter the reference. Very cool for Accordance think about.