Jump to content


Photo

Renn Bible Words Vs. Vine's


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 circuitrider

circuitrider

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 294 posts
  • Accordance Version:8.x

Posted 17 January 2011 - 04:38 PM

I am considering getting Vine's on for KIndle on my iPad being that Accordance does not offer it at this time. I did see Renn Bible Words in my modules though. Has anyone had the opportunity to use both of these resources. If so should I still get Vine's? Also available on Kindle is Mounce's Dictionary for consideration.

Thanks in adavance!

#2 Timothy Jenney

Timothy Jenney

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,488 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sunny Winter Haven, FL
  • Interests:a good cup of coffee, sci-fi, playing bass, listing to jazz and the blues, camping, fishing and the great outdoors
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 17 January 2011 - 06:00 PM

I am considering getting Vine's on for KIndle on my iPad being that Accordance does not offer it at this time. I did see Renn Bible Words in my modules though. Has anyone had the opportunity to use both of these resources. If so should I still get Vine's? Also available on Kindle is Mounce's Dictionary for consideration.

Thanks in adavance!


Hi, Circuit Rider!

Renn's is quite good, I would consider it superior to Vine's, which I really hesitate to recommend.

If you really want to step up to better word studies, I'd recommend NIDNTT (NT, $109) and NIDOTTE (OT, $129). Though not cheap, both of these books are treasures—and very good values, as they keep delivering, year after year. And yes, both can be downloaded to the iPad/iPhone.

Having been both a[n unpaid] student and a [very low-paid] pastor for many years, I tried to get by on inexpensive tools. It was like buying a cheap screwdriver and having it break the very first time I needed it! Eventually, I realized I was better off to wait, save my money and buy the best tools as I could afford them. I haven't looked back since!
Blessings,
"Dr. J"

Timothy P. Jenney, Ph. D.
"Lighting the Lamp" Host and Producer

#3 circuitrider

circuitrider

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 294 posts
  • Accordance Version:8.x

Posted 18 January 2011 - 11:56 AM

Hi, Circuit Rider!

Renn's is quite good, I would consider it superior to Vine's, which I really hesitate to recommend.

If you really want to step up to better word studies, I'd recommend NIDNTT (NT, $109) and NIDOTTE (OT, $129). Though not cheap, both of these books are treasures—and very good values, as they keep delivering, year after year. And yes, both can be downloaded to the iPad/iPhone.

Having been both a[n unpaid] student and a [very low-paid] pastor for many years, I tried to get by on inexpensive tools. It was like buying a cheap screwdriver and having it break the very first time I needed it! Eventually, I realized I was better off to wait, save my money and buy the best tools as I could afford them. I haven't looked back since!


Tim, since I've met you (via podcast) you've cost me a lot of money! But you haven't steered me wrong yet, so I'll take this advice to heart.

Thanks for the info!

#4 Timothy Jenney

Timothy Jenney

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,488 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sunny Winter Haven, FL
  • Interests:a good cup of coffee, sci-fi, playing bass, listing to jazz and the blues, camping, fishing and the great outdoors
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 18 January 2011 - 12:08 PM

Tim, since I've met you (via podcast) you've cost me a lot of money! But you haven't steered me wrong yet, so I'll take this advice to heart.

Thanks for the info!


[Chuckle]

Thanks, Circuit Rider!

However, just think of the money I've saved you! ;) I won't bore you [or discourage me] with tales of the hard-earned cash I've put into some books, only to find out they were worthless to me. Happily, some of my students found those same books helpful.
Blessings,
"Dr. J"

Timothy P. Jenney, Ph. D.
"Lighting the Lamp" Host and Producer

#5 Alistair

Alistair

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 486 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 20 January 2011 - 08:49 PM

Tim, would you clarify your reservations on Vines, please? I'm curious why you would hesitate to recommend it.

Thanks!

#6 Alistair

Alistair

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 486 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 02 March 2011 - 10:01 AM

Tim, would you clarify your reservations on Vines, please? I'm curious why you would hesitate to recommend it.

Thanks!



Any chance of a reply, Tim? I know a lot of people who use Vines and wonder why you would hesitate to recommend it.

Thanks!

#7 Timothy Jenney

Timothy Jenney

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,488 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sunny Winter Haven, FL
  • Interests:a good cup of coffee, sci-fi, playing bass, listing to jazz and the blues, camping, fishing and the great outdoors
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 02 March 2011 - 01:43 PM

Any chance of a reply, Tim? I know a lot of people who use Vines and wonder why you would hesitate to recommend it.

Thanks!


[Chuckle] So you're not going to let me dodge your question, huh? ;-) OK, here goes...

There are a number of tools from the previous generation of scholars that were fine for their day, but have long since been surpassed. These include Vine's word studies, AT Robinson's Word Pictures of the New Testament, the one-volume Zondervan Bible Dictionary, the original Halley's Bible Handbook, many of Alfred Edersheim's books, etc. Generally, these were written by a single person who could not have personally mastered everything in their books, but if s/he used material by other scholars did not bother to cite it, or even give footnotes with his/her sources! Most of these are in the public domain today and are therefore very cheap to buy. That means people continue buying them, even though they are very outdated.

Few non-specialists appreciate how much more we know about the Bible today than 100 years ago—or even 20 years ago!!! Discoveries at Nag Hammadi, Ebla, Qumran, and other places have increased our knowledge tenfold. The best lexicons and word studies books, like NIDNTT and NIDOTT, BDB, CDCH, BAG, etc. have sources and footnotes. The best of the best are written by multiple scholars, each the best in his or her specific fields. These books are more expensive, but provide much more reliable, up-to-date information.

You don't have to take my word for it. Just go to a seminary or university library and look up a word or two in several of these books. You'll notice an immediate difference between the two groups.

I don't want to disparage the previous generation of authors. They did well for their day and their works have blessed many. [That's the reason I originally tried to dodge your question.] They were the best available. However, better works are available to today's Christians. I hope people like you will take advantage of them.
Blessings,
"Dr. J"

Timothy P. Jenney, Ph. D.
"Lighting the Lamp" Host and Producer

#8 HansK

HansK

    Silver

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Interests:Legal metaphors, Dogmatics, Christology
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 02 March 2011 - 05:06 PM

Hi Dr J,

I can follow you here :-)

But ... I like Vine and his works, which were recommended often by FF Bruce (also Christian Brethren).
Perhaps it is good to have his Dictionary too in Accordance. Just for comparison. If Robertson is also available....

Thank you for your podcasts, which are helpful to me. But you cost me a lot of money too :-)

Blessings, Hans
(The Netherlands)

#9 Alistair

Alistair

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 486 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 02 March 2011 - 09:01 PM

Dear Tim,

Thanks for the truly excellent and well-reasoned reply, I should put you on the spot more often!
I generally believe that today's best scholars are "giants standing on the shoulders of dwarfs," though of course we are indebted to the past generations of scholars, preachers and teachers.
It's just that we can see so much further than they with the tools we have at our disposal, as you mentioned.

I actually am wary of Vines, indeed am wary of a lot of 'word-study' material in general, especially those marketed towards the untrained or self-trained non-specialist or amateur, when you can get _every_ possible meaning of a word applied to the text, regardless of context.

Your explanation has wrapped it all up very neatly.

Thanks again!

~Alistair

#10 JonathanHuber

JonathanHuber

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 733 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Englewood, CO
  • Interests:Bible study, Greek
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 05 April 2011 - 01:13 PM

There are a number of tools from the previous generation of scholars that were fine for their day, but have long since been surpassed. These include Vine's word studies, AT Robinson's Word Pictures of the New Testament, the one-volume Zondervan Bible Dictionary, the original Halley's Bible Handbook, many of Alfred Edersheim's books, etc. Generally, these were written by a single person who could not have personally mastered everything in their books, but if s/he used material by other scholars did not bother to cite it, or even give footnotes with his/her sources! Most of these are in the public domain today and are therefore very cheap to buy. That means people continue buying them, even though they are very outdated.


Sorry to resurrect an older thread, but I wondered if you could comment on Edersheim's books. My wife and I have enjoyed reading through these books. I also have Schurer's books, which are more technical but equally dated. What resources would you suggest as newer replacements for these works?

#11 HansK

HansK

    Silver

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Interests:Legal metaphors, Dogmatics, Christology
  • Accordance Version:10.x

Posted 16 July 2011 - 03:49 AM

My vote for the Vines again Posted Image

Hi Dr J,

I can follow you here :-)

But ... I like Vine and his works, which were recommended often by FF Bruce (also Christian Brethren).
Perhaps it is good to have his Dictionary too in Accordance. Just for comparison. If Robertson is also available....

Thank you for your podcasts, which are helpful to me. But you cost me a lot of money too :-)

Blessings, Hans
(The Netherlands)






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users