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#1 DavidDoyle

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 04:45 PM

I'm using Accordance 9.3.1 under 10.6.7 with an iPad (4.3.2). I'm using the latest Accordance app and I've run into trouble with syncing my user notes.
When I first installed my notes (DoyleNotes) came across fine, and I was even able to put them on my MacBook Air by syncing only user content.

Now they seem to have disappeared from the sync and from the iPad. The file is still present on both Macs in the user/Documents/Accordance Files/User Notes folder but when I run the sync the only notes file that shows up and syncs is the My Mobile Notes which I haven't been using.

I have rebooted both Macs and the iPad and used the "Remove Last Save" switch on the iPad as well.

I'm stumped and now have to go off to Bible study with no notes on my iPad.

Any and all suggestions are welcome.

Thanks

#2 Scott Knapp

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 06:10 PM

I'm using Accordance 9.3.1 under 10.6.7 with an iPad (4.3.2). I'm using the latest Accordance app and I've run into trouble with syncing my user notes.
When I first installed my notes (DoyleNotes) came across fine, and I was even able to put them on my MacBook Air by syncing only user content.

Now they seem to have disappeared from the sync and from the iPad. The file is still present on both Macs in the user/Documents/Accordance Files/User Notes folder but when I run the sync the only notes file that shows up and syncs is the My Mobile Notes which I haven't been using.

I have rebooted both Macs and the iPad and used the "Remove Last Save" switch on the iPad as well.

I'm stumped and now have to go off to Bible study with no notes on my iPad.

Any and all suggestions are welcome.

Thanks

Let me make sure I understand the steps you've taken so far.

You successfully synced your user note file (DolyeNotes) from one Accordance for Mac installation to your iPad.
Then you did a sync of user content only from your iPad to another Accordance for Mac installation on a different computer.
After the sync of user content only, your user note file (DoyleNotes) no longer appears on your iPad, and also doesn't appear in the list of notes to sync on either Accordance for Mac installation.

Assuming this is the correct sequence of events for you, then let me ask some questions:

When syncing the user note file the second time, were there conflicts in the note file that needed to be resolved?
Regardless of that, can you tell me the size of the user note file (DoyleNotes). You can select the file in the Finder and do a Get Info on it for the file size.

Thanks,

Scott.

#3 Timothy Jenney

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 06:25 PM

Scott,

I can confirm this problem. Sorry I missed it during the beta.

The first sync of my users notes worked fine, when there were conflicts I had to choose between the note I wanted to keep. I changed the note on both the computer and the iPad in preparation for the podcast, then found Accordance gave me no opportunity to choose between them. It just synced them. Looks like the shorter note was chosen in each case. :(

Like David, I am using the very latest revs of everything.
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#4 Scott Knapp

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 07:04 PM

Scott,

I can confirm this problem. Sorry I missed it during the beta.

The first sync of my users notes worked fine, when there were conflicts I had to choose between the note I wanted to keep. I changed the note on both the computer and the iPad in preparation for the podcast, then found Accordance gave me no opportunity to choose between them. It just synced them. Looks like the shorter note was chosen in each case. :(

Like David, I am using the very latest revs of everything.

Were you also syncing your user notes to a different Accordance for Mac installation the second time? Or in your case you were just re-syncing to the same Accordance for Mac installation?

Scott.

#5 DavidDoyle

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 08:08 PM

Let me make sure I understand the steps you've taken so far.

You successfully synced your user note file (DolyeNotes) from one Accordance for Mac installation to your iPad.
Then you did a sync of user content only from your iPad to another Accordance for Mac installation on a different computer.
After the sync of user content only, your user note file (DoyleNotes) no longer appears on your iPad, and also doesn't appear in the list of notes to sync on either Accordance for Mac installation.

Assuming this is the correct sequence of events for you, then let me ask some questions:

When syncing the user note file the second time, were there conflicts in the note file that needed to be resolved?
Regardless of that, can you tell me the size of the user note file (DoyleNotes). You can select the file in the Finder and do a Get Info on it for the file size.

Thanks,

Scott.

Scott,

That is exactly the sequence.

I have never had any conflicts to deal with. The notes were just synchronized with no further action on my part. I do try to only make changes in one place at a time and then sync before I make changes on a second device.

The file is 5.1 mb (5,121,510 bytes)

DD

#6 Timothy Jenney

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 06:38 AM

Were you also syncing your user notes to a different Accordance for Mac installation the second time? Or in your case you were just re-syncing to the same Accordance for Mac installation?

Scott.


Hmmm..., good question. I think it was the same user on my Mac, but I can't be positive. I was preparing for the podcast and my mind was on other things. It shouldn't matter though, should it? It's the same User Notes file...
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#7 Mike Garrity

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 07:05 AM

The file is 5.1 mb (5,121,510 bytes)


Accordance for Mac restricts User Note syncing based on file size (currently 5MB). Accordance for iOS currently has some technical limitations/potential problems displaying large User Notes that we will address in a future revision.

In the meantime, if you reduce the size of this User Note then you should be able to sync it to your device.


Mike

#8 DavidDoyle

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 12:58 PM

Accordance for Mac restricts User Note syncing based on file size (currently 5MB). Accordance for iOS currently has some technical limitations/potential problems displaying large User Notes that we will address in a future revision.

In the meantime, if you reduce the size of this User Note then you should be able to sync it to your device.


Mike

Gee Mike, I had to re-read this because I thought it was a joke. The premier academic Bible program is limited to 5 meg for a note file. Definitely not ready for my Bible study teaching.

I guess I better stop bragging how robust the user notes on Accordance is. I've converted a few Logos uses because they had lost notes due to instability - I hope they don't try the iPad for a while.

#9 Scott Knapp

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 01:36 PM

Gee Mike, I had to re-read this because I thought it was a joke. The premier academic Bible program is limited to 5 meg for a note file. Definitely not ready for my Bible study teaching.

I guess I better stop bragging how robust the user notes on Accordance is. I've converted a few Logos uses because they had lost notes due to instability - I hope they don't try the iPad for a while.

David,

I respectfully disagree with your assessment that there is "instability" with regards to our user note handling.

The technical issue with user notes in Accordance for iOS is an available device RAM issue. Unlike other modules, when a user note is opened for viewing on both Accordance for Mac and iOS, the entire user note is loaded into system memory. That's not an issue on Mac OS X where most users have GB's of RAM and a 4 GB virtual memory space for each application. It is an issue, however, in iOS where devices only have 128MB or 256MB of available RAM and NO virtual memory space. And both the system and every application running or suspended shares this meager memory space. So in iOS we are severally RAM limited.

In our testing with only a handful of applications suspended in the background and Accordance for iOS running in the foreground, a 20MB user note file caused the system to send us a continuous stream of "reduce your memory usage or else" warnings and eventually kill the app because there was no way we could release any of the memory in use while the user note was opened and being viewed in a user note search view. When opening and displaying a user note in the parallel pane of a text search view, we started having memory issues in the ~10 MB user note file size range.

So we had to make a tough choice. If we didn't restrict the maximum user note file size installed on the device, then users ran the risk of not being even able to open their larger user note files sometimes. And when they could or could not would totally depend on how much available system memory the device was willing to let us consume before shutting us down. Or we could set an (admittedly arbitrary) maximum size that would not run into memory issues for most users and would hopefully be high enough that only a very few users would be hindered by the limit. Because user notes are completely user generated content, we really have no insight into how big most user note files actually are. So we made an educated guess and set a maximum file size of 5MB which we felt would give us enough of a safety margin to not have Accordance for iOS crashing when trying to view any user note file installed on the device.

Long term, we may have to redesign the way we load and handle user note files to treat them more like other modules (where we only load pieces at a time) but that work is not even scheduled on our road map. I"m also hopeful that newer devices will begin to ship with even more installed RAM. But, for now, we have to deal with the real world of still supporting devices that only have 128MB of RAM installed for everything to share. Maybe it makes sense to have the limit be higher if your iOS device has more RAM (newer iPhones and iPads have 256MB. I think the iPad 2 may have 512MB). I am reluctant to completely remove the limit, however.

I hope you take the above in the spirit it is offered, not as an excuse but as an explanation of why the limit is present, and our acknowledgment that we recognize the limitation and burden it places of some of our users.

Scott.

#10 DavidDoyle

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 03:50 PM

Scott,

I think you should re-read my post. I said that the instability was in the Logos product, and as one who lost notes there I stand by it.

I have never lost notes in Accordance, and even though my notes aren't on the iOS app any more, they are still safely residing in the desktop program.

If I didn't have such a high regard for Accordance, and didn't have such a good history of using it, I probably would have shrugged my shoulders and moved on. I'm not at all surprised at your explanation - although I wish I knew before hand, I would not have depended on the Accordance app for Bible study last night.

It's just such a disappointment to find out that the Accordance programers as human after all :)

I hope that one of the long term solutions you mention turn out to be viable as the notes are a vital part of why I use Accordance. I've been highlighting and note taking since I first got the program (it was when OSX 10.2 was current), so I've got a well marked computer Bible that I was hoping would fit into an iPad.

Perhaps you can have Dr. J make a podcast on using multiple note files as I guess that's my next step.

Thanks for the explanation.

DD

#11 Helen Brown

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 05:05 PM

Gee Mike, I had to re-read this because I thought it was a joke. The premier academic Bible program is limited to 5 meg for a note file. Definitely not ready for my Bible study teaching.

I guess I better stop bragging how robust the user notes on Accordance is. I've converted a few Logos uses because they had lost notes due to instability - I hope they don't try the iPad for a while.


David:

I don't understand your comment either. Accordance on Mac does not limit the size of the user notes file. Do you really mean it's not ready to use for teaching? I think it's obvious from your later reply that this isn't what you intended, but a casual reader of this post might think so.
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#12 Helen Brown

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 05:11 PM

Scott,
It's just such a disappointment to find out that the Accordance programers as human after all :)


Yes, all our hard-working staff are human, but the reason for the limitation has to do with technical not human limits.

Perhaps you can have Dr. J make a podcast on using multiple note files as I guess that's my next step.

DD


Unfortunately, although it is very easy to create and use multiple user notes file, it would be a huge pain for you to split your current files into smaller chunks. The only way would be to make multiple copies of the original, and delete each unwanted note from each file. Clearly this is not a viable option in your case, so maybe the programmers can come up with a option to import just a range of notes into a new file, rather than the entire set.
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#13 Scott Knapp

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 10:09 PM

Scott,

I think you should re-read my post. I said that the instability was in the Logos product, and as one who lost notes there I stand by it.

I have never lost notes in Accordance, and even though my notes aren't on the iOS app any more, they are still safely residing in the desktop program.

If I didn't have such a high regard for Accordance, and didn't have such a good history of using it, I probably would have shrugged my shoulders and moved on. I'm not at all surprised at your explanation - although I wish I knew before hand, I would not have depended on the Accordance app for Bible study last night.

It's just such a disappointment to find out that the Accordance programers as human after all :)

I hope that one of the long term solutions you mention turn out to be viable as the notes are a vital part of why I use Accordance. I've been highlighting and note taking since I first got the program (it was when OSX 10.2 was current), so I've got a well marked computer Bible that I was hoping would fit into an iPad.

Perhaps you can have Dr. J make a podcast on using multiple note files as I guess that's my next step.

Thanks for the explanation.

DD

David,

I did misread your post so my apologies if I came off rather strong in my response.

Thanks for your support,

Scott




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