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#1 Kilwing

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 01:11 AM

A lot of hebrew verbal roots have a vocal as third element of their roots (called verba tertiae vocalis) Some have a consonantal h (called he mappiqatum) like gbh "to be high" . How can I find this roots ? Search for h with dot finds all roots with h in third position.

Greetings from Freiburg

Norbert Kilwing

#2 Mike Thigpen

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 08:44 AM

A lot of hebrew verbal roots have a vocal as third element of their roots (called verba tertiae vocalis) Some have a consonantal h (called he mappiqatum) like gbh "to be high" . How can I find this roots ? Search for h with dot finds all roots with h in third position.

Greetings from Freiburg

Norbert Kilwing


I think you could use a search with ??+ . (See the attached screen shot.)

The + indicates that you are searching for a root form. The ?? indicates that the first and second letter of the root can be any letter. I've then specified the final letter as aleph, he, waw, or yod. You could do this with any letter you were looking for in the third position. Then I've tagged the search to look for verbs using the [Verb]@. You can then look at the analysis to see a listing of the verbs that are included.

Hope this gets you started in the right direction. This won't resolve whether the final consonant is consonantal or not, but it will at least get you an initial set of forms you can work with.

Mike

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Edited by Mike Thigpen, 24 May 2011 - 09:46 AM.


#3 jpkang

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 09:44 AM

Searches for consonantal III-he roots only are not possible currently since the root tagging does not distinguish between the consonantal and weak endings.
J. P. Kang, Ph.D. (Bible)

#4 David Lang

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 10:48 AM

There may be some confusion over the use of the term "root" here. Norbert may not be wanting to do a root search at all. In Accordance, a root search will find all lemmas which are derived from the same root form and which are therefore cognate. Norbert may simply be wanting to find all lexical forms with a consonantal h as the third radical of the verbal stem (which is also sometimes called its root).

Norbert, by default Accordance ignores vowel points, dageshes, etc. and will only search for lexical forms with the consonants you enter. If you want such marks to be considered in your search, you need to precede the word you're searching for with an equals sign (=). I was able to find all lemmas ending in consonantal he by doing the following search:

‎[VERB]‏ @ ‎‏‎‏=??הּ

Once you do that search, open an Analysis window by selecting Analysis from the pop-up button that looks like a blue bar graph. The Analysis will list all the words found by the search. Is that what you were trying to do?
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#5 David Lang

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 10:50 AM

It looks like in my previous post the Unicode came out funny. That should be a he with a dagesh in the middle.

By the way, is it still called a dagesh when it's used with a he?
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#6 James Tucker

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 03:26 PM

It looks like in my previous post the Unicode came out funny. That should be a he with a dagesh in the middle.

By the way, is it still called a dagesh when it's used with a he?


Dagesh (דגש) roughly means "dot." So in a sense, It could be considered a Dagesh. In grammars, this is more appropriately considered the Mappiq, indicating that the ה- is consonantal in force (vocalized in pronunciation). So grammatically speaking, it's not a Dagesh, in the sense of Lene (Qal) or Forte (Hazaq) (although it is very similarly related). "Mappiq" is roughly a drawing out, hence the need to indicate to your audience a vocalized ה. Either way, we could be splitting hairs here.

Edited by James Tucker, 24 May 2011 - 03:29 PM.


#7 Kilwing

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 04:51 AM

A lot of hebrew verbal roots have a vocal as third element of their roots (called verba tertiae vocalis) Some have a consonantal h (called he mappiqatum) like gbh "to be high" . How can I find this roots ? Search for h with dot finds all roots with h in third position.

Greetings from Freiburg

Norbert Kilwing



The problem seems to be solved in Version 9.3.3 ; the search [VERB] @ h??= brings a correct result . But why ? (St. Thomas would call it a "mysterium stricte dictum"). Thanks for the kind instructions about dagesh and mappiq (I'm teaching Hebrew since about 38 years but learning doesnt have an end!)

Greetings from the sunny Freiburg (no tornados today :-))

Norbert Kilwing

#8 jpkang

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 12:35 AM

‎[VERB]‏ @ ‎‏‎‏=??הּ

Just learned something new! Thanks, David!
J. P. Kang, Ph.D. (Bible)




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