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Finding εἰμι clauses with only one nom


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#1 Rod Decker

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 09:53 AM

I'm trying to figure out how to search for predicate nominative (AKA subject complement) constructions in which the subject comes from the verb (i.e., no explicit nom case subject in the clause) and there is only one nominative which is the pred nom. (I suppose I'd take two noms. if it were a compund pred. nom...) Ideally, using a form of εἱμι, but I'll take γινομαι or ὑπαρχω if necessary.

Since my purpose is pedagogical--first year examples and relatively early in the year--I'd prefer that these be present active indicative forms, but the search need not include that. My guess is the sample size will be rather small, so I can manually scan for PAI forms.
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#2 Helen Brown

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 01:52 AM

This is all Greek to me, but I'm replying to bump the topic up in hopes that someone who does know Greek will come up with some ideas. You probably need to use the Syntax to define this.
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#3 David Lang

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 02:24 PM

Rod,

Here's how I think you should be able to construct such a search, but unfortunately it didn't yield any results:

Greek Construct
First column: Any Clause
First column inside Clause: Subject and NULL tags
Second column inside Clause: Predicate Phrase
First column inside the Phrase: LEX =eimi
Second column inside the Phrase: Complement and ANY Nominative tags

If I understand the NULL correctly, it's supposed to represent where a verb does not have an explicit subject, so this search should find any clause with a null subject and eimi followed by a nominative complement (i.E. a predicate nominative). As I said though, I didn't get any results.

I then removed the NULL from my Construct and got all kinds of Predicate nominative phrases with explicit subjects: the first of which is Mark 1:16. The thing is, this first occurrence seems to fit the case you're looking for, since it ends with the clause "for they were fishermen." The subject is explicit in the preceding clause, where it seems to me it really should be tagged as the complement of the verb "saw." Then the eimi clause could be tagged as having a NULL subject. Perhaps Marco can weigh in and explain the rationale here.

At any rate, that's one example that seems to fit your case.
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#4 Robert Holmstedt

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 03:22 PM

Rod,

Here's how I think you should be able to construct such a search, but unfortunately it didn't yield any results:

Greek Construct
First column: Any Clause
First column inside Clause: Subject and NULL tags
Second column inside Clause: Predicate Phrase
First column inside the Phrase: LEX =eimi
Second column inside the Phrase: Complement and ANY Nominative tags

If I understand the NULL correctly, it's supposed to represent where a verb does not have an explicit subject, so this search should find any clause with a null subject and eimi followed by a nominative complement (i.E. a predicate nominative). As I said though, I didn't get any results.

I then removed the NULL from my Construct and got all kinds of Predicate nominative phrases with explicit subjects: the first of which is Mark 1:16. The thing is, this first occurrence seems to fit the case you're looking for, since it ends with the clause "for they were fishermen." The subject is explicit in the preceding clause, where it seems to me it really should be tagged as the complement of the verb "saw." Then the eimi clause could be tagged as having a NULL subject. Perhaps Marco can weigh in and explain the rationale here.

At any rate, that's one example that seems to fit your case.


David,

The Greek database does not use Null the same way the Hebrew database does. I believe you have to Negative Negate the Subject rather that use Null, but Marco will indeed have to weigh in to clarify.

Robert

Edited by Robert Holmstedt, 25 June 2011 - 10:14 AM.

Associate Professor, Ancient Hebrew and Northwest Semitic Languages
Dept. of Near and Middle Eastern Civilizations
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blog: ancienthebrewgrammar.wordpress.com

#5 Rod Decker

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 07:20 AM

Combining Dave's and Robert's suggestions, I can find valid examples---albeit mixed with invalid ones. It seems like constituent sequence is not tracked correctly in such searches.

Now, having found what I need for those examples, here's another related perplexity. How do you structure such a syntax query when, say, a predicate clause is split:

subject complement > subject > verb
or
verbal complement (i.e., D.O.) > subject > verb*

In this case the complement and verb belong in the predicate clause, but there isn't any obvious way to specify a situation where the subject intervenes between the two parts of the predicate. I assume this sort of search can be defined, but I don't see any obvious way to do it.

*e.g., 1 Sam 25:28, πόλεμον ὁ κύριος . πολεμεῖ.

John 1:45, εὑρίσκει Φίλιππος τὸν Ναθαναήλ.
Rodney J. Decker, ThD
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#6 Robert Holmstedt

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 10:13 AM

[font="Arial"][size="2"] Combining Dave's and Robert's suggestions, I can find valid examples---albeit mixed with invalid ones. It seems like constituent sequence is not tracked correctly in such searches.

Now, having found what I need for those examples, here's another related perplexity. How do you structure such a syntax query when, say, a predicate clause is split:


Rod,

Now that feature is common to both databases and I can answer that it's being programmed right now. The tagging is specific enough to link parts of predicates, so it's not a worry -- such things will be searchable. It's simply that it's the kind of complication that meant it was down a ways on the programming list.
Associate Professor, Ancient Hebrew and Northwest Semitic Languages
Dept. of Near and Middle Eastern Civilizations
The University of Toronto
blog: ancienthebrewgrammar.wordpress.com




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