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#1 Sam DeSocio

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 01:14 PM

I've loved accordance on the mac, but Ive got to be honest Ive been incredibly disappointed with the ios app. I dont get the sense that there is agreement as to what the app is supposed to be used for. Im using the app on the ipad and the app looks pretty generic.

If its meant to be a way to read the resources that Ive purchased already its painful to read.
My education included some print design and there are fundamental principles of readability that this app seems to ignore. Notice that there is a margin in apps like kindle and ibooks and instapaper. The navigation should vanish when not in use, and there should be kerning and margin options. This is an app that lets you read, and without basic typography fixes, its maddening.

If its meant to be a reading app there should be a way to sync your location from the desktop to the ipad. Ie Im reading calvin's commentary on Romans on the desktop, when I sync with the app and open calvin it brings me right to that same section.

If its meant to be a research tool, then it seems to be missing core features.

Like the ability (at least on the ipad) to have more than two panels open.
and the Ability to import and export studies to the desktop as well as having the simply ability to view one's history.
The whole idea of a workspace seems to have been abandoned but much of what makes Accordance work on the desktop means that trying that duplication in iOS without workspaces means its a jumbled mess.

I've seen the improvements in the UI but honestly the app feels incredibly clunky. I don't understand what the arrows are at the bottom of the screen. there are side to side arrows which simply seem to take me back and forth to Genesis? Them seem to be a history but they seem to be very odd. The up and down arrows are unclickable. Nothing seems to follow a pattern established by any off ios app and they also dont seem to correspond to the desktop.

The library panel slides up the space, and where that button for the library was is replace by a down arrow, but its not to close the panel its to download content?

The only benefit Ive found is the quick ability to see the greek or hebrew of a word, other than that there is no reason to use this app rather than the free bible apps available.

Apple seems to be making it plainly clear than things are moving toward being more like iOS.

Honestly Ive spend a lot of money on accordance but Im considering moving to logos simply because their ecosystem shows me they are moving forward with apple. The accordance app might have been a good try but I cant rate it more than a c-

I just don't think Accordance has communicated what the app is for because honestly they aren't sure what it's supposed to do.


I'd encourage the design team to start by looking to stuff like this

http://dribbble.com/...apaper-Redesign

#2 Scott Knapp

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 02:58 PM

I've loved accordance on the mac, but Ive got to be honest Ive been incredibly disappointed with the ios app. I dont get the sense that there is agreement as to what the app is supposed to be used for. Im using the app on the ipad and the app looks pretty generic.

Sorry to hear about your disappointment. Let me give a brief background on the initial goals of the app and then try to answer your questions and address your concerns.

When the decision was made to create an iOS application the marching orders were a simple as this: The app needs to "view current Accordance modules, perform searches, and allow users to take notes." That's all. So we went about creating an iOS app that has all the power and sophistication of the Accordance search engine underneath with a very bare bones and basic user interface. As on the desktop, we expected many features and improvements to be user driven. Nearly all of the changes we've made since the initial release only 9 months ago have been due to user feedback. And that trend will continue going forward.

If its meant to be a way to read the resources that Ive purchased already its painful to read.
My education included some print design and there are fundamental principles of readability that this app seems to ignore. Notice that there is a margin in apps like kindle and ibooks and instapaper. The navigation should vanish when not in use, and there should be kerning and margin options. This is an app that lets you read, and without basic typography fixes, its maddening.

If its meant to be a reading app there should be a way to sync your location from the desktop to the ipad. Ie Im reading calvin's commentary on Romans on the desktop, when I sync with the app and open calvin it brings me right to that same section.

I think it's obvious from the current design and layout of the app that it was not originally planned to be used primarily as a reading tool. In fact, we've been surprised how many people are attempting to use it in this manner. Based on user feedback, we clearly recognize the need to vastly improve the reading experience. That conversation has been going on internally and we are working towards that goal.

If its meant to be a research tool, then it seems to be missing core features.

Like the ability (at least on the ipad) to have more than two panels open.
and the Ability to import and export studies to the desktop as well as having the simply ability to view one's history.
The whole idea of a workspace seems to have been abandoned but much of what makes Accordance work on the desktop means that trying that duplication in iOS without workspaces means its a jumbled mess.

I would be happy to know which mobile bible software app is currently supporting shareable, syncable workspaces and more than 2 panes open at a time. Seriously.

That being said, I agree with you. We need to better articulate the concept of a "workspace" within the usage patterns of the iOS app. And to the extent we can support multiple panes and zones in the iPad app, we'll continue to move in that direction.


I've seen the improvements in the UI but honestly the app feels incredibly clunky. I don't understand what the arrows are at the bottom of the screen. there are side to side arrows which simply seem to take me back and forth to Genesis? Them seem to be a history but they seem to be very odd. The up and down arrows are unclickable. Nothing seems to follow a pattern established by any off ios app and they also dont seem to correspond to the desktop.

That navigation patterns are NOT established by other iOS apps, but by Accordance for Mac. Just like on the desktop, the left and right arrows take you back and forth through your navigation history which is built up as you use the GoTo views and hyperlinks within modules. The up and down arrows are equivalent to the "Mark" arrows on the desktop and can only used to navigate through bookmark search results. I agree this could be greatly improved.


The library panel slides up the space, and where that button for the library was is replace by a down arrow, but its not to close the panel its to download content?

All due respect, but I'm not sure how we could make closing the Library view more obvious. I mean there's only a button that says "Close" at the top of the Library view.

The only benefit Ive found is the quick ability to see the greek or hebrew of a word, other than that there is no reason to use this app rather than the free bible apps available.

So I take it that the searching capabilities of Accordance are just not that important for you. If so, then I agree with your assessment.


Apple seems to be making it plainly clear than things are moving toward being more like iOS.

Honestly Ive spend a lot of money on accordance but Im considering moving to logos simply because their ecosystem shows me they are moving forward with apple. The accordance app might have been a good try but I cant rate it more than a c-

If you're looking for a better mobile bible app experience than what Accordance can currently offer and integrates better with how Apple is moving forward, there are much better choices than the one you're suggesting. It doesn't even meet your criteria for what a research tool should have.

I just don't think Accordance has communicated what the app is for because honestly they aren't sure what it's supposed to do.


I'd encourage the design team to start by looking to stuff like this

http://dribbble.com/...apaper-Redesign


Thanks for the feedback.

Scott.

#3 Sam DeSocio

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 04:01 PM

Scott,

Thanks for responding. Honestly I don't see the ipad replacing a laptop for any serious study, anytime soon. It seems like at best the limitations of the iOS experience limit the usability to a quick look up, which is fine with accordance.

Some of the features I was speaking to would be the things needed to make the app an actually research powerhouse. Honestly I think you guys should prioritize the reading side of the application. The content that Accordance has, as well as the ease of importing reference data is great.

You guys prioritizing being able to study the bible."We believe the primary purpose of Bible Study software should be to study the Bible"
To study the Bible one needs to be able to comfortably read the text. Bibles are meant to be read. And I think that the current iOS app is not meant to be read. At best its meant to be "viewed" but there is a major difference between being able to study a text and being able to see that its able to be studied on the desktop.

I seems that the search priority trumped the Bible priority in the app.

I feel like the current app is more of an ad for your search features.

Please consider a major redesign that would bring it inline with the other reading experiences available for iOS, or consider branching the project to offer an app that would simply be a reader.

Please don't consider this a personal attack. If I had not seen other apps that make reading a wonder on the ipad I would not be as critical. but the bar has been raised very high, and normally you guys are the one setting the bar, but this time I feel like you've missed.

#4 Kit

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:59 PM

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Though I have many modules, I rarely read these materials in this app because it is not good for reading. Adding a good margin will help and I mentioned this long long time ago.
Thanks,
Chris
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#5 Sam DeSocio

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 10:05 AM

@Scott,

Let me push something a bit deeper. You said

"The app needs to "view current Accordance modules, perform searches, and allow users to take notes." That's all."



That is not the same as saying the purpose behind having an ipad app. Please consider really examining the best way to use an ipad and accordance together before adding more features...

#6 Rick Bennett

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 11:57 AM

@Scott,

Let me push something a bit deeper. You said

That is not the same as saying the purpose behind having an ipad app. Please consider really examining the best way to use an ipad and accordance together before adding more features...


Hi Sam,

I'm glad you posted here on the forum so you could get a more official response from Scott than what we've dialogued about on Twitter.

Thought I would briefly chime in on a more general note. In the 9 months that our app has been available, we've covered a decent amount of ground from what the initial goal was for it. Please keep in mind we're only at version 1.3, and the future is wide open for what will be possible. We've only begun to scratch the surface on iPad specific enhancements, but that will progress as time goes on and it's place within bible study and reading is more clearly articulated and defined. We're very much aware of what our competitors offer in other bible apps, as well as the direction mainstream reading apps like iBooks, Kindle, Reeder, etc. seem to be going.

As Scott mentioned, we take user feedback seriously (that's also why I wanted you to post here where your comments would be seen). I would encourage you (as you have done to an extent), to offer up specific ways/ideas/thoughts you may have (such as margins) as these are items that can serve as talking points for our development meetings where we hash out future plans.

Thanks for your support. Catch ya on Twitter… :)
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#7 Kit

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 05:58 PM

I think iOS version really needs an UI update.

#8 Scott Knapp

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 08:20 PM

I think iOS version really needs an UI update.

Done.

#9 Michael J. Bolesta

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 10:05 AM

Done?
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#10 Scott Knapp

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:22 PM

Done?

Kit requested a UI update and a UI update has been performed. Of course, he didn't ask for any specific enhancements so I've taken the liberty of interpreting the current changes in development as meeting his request. <_<

Scott.

#11 Kit

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:02 PM

What I meant is that the current user interface of the iOS version really needs an overall revamp. The current one is not up to par, and it is the least attractive among all my bible study apps.

#12 Sam DeSocio

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 10:13 PM

Im going to make 5 UI requests in order of importances

Make a customizable Margin!!!!

Make the top menu and the bottom menu disappear until you tap on the screen. So you can swipe thru text but the extra visual noise is gone.

Move all the buttons to the top menu and simply leave the navigation buttons at the bottom.

Black is better than the brown but, ditch the black and go to the same color as the paper (or just make it newsprint)

invest in making a better ui for the settings (At least on the ipad)

P.S. Id pay 30 bucks if I could get an ipad version that had all that stuff and included the ability to write my own notes, make my own highlights, save the session and sync it all back to the desktop.

#13 Rick Bennett

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 10:21 PM

Im going to make 5 UI requests in order of importances

Make a customizable Margin!!!!

Make the top menu and the bottom menu disappear until you tap on the screen. So you can swipe thru text but the extra visual noise is gone.

Move all the buttons to the top menu and simply leave the navigation buttons at the bottom.

Black is better than the brown but, ditch the black and go to the same color as the paper (or just make it newsprint)

invest in making a better ui for the settings (At least on the ipad)

P.S. Id pay 30 bucks if I could get an ipad version that had all that stuff and included the ability to write my own notes, make my own highlights, save the session and sync it all back to the desktop.


that's what I'm talking about…this type of request is very helpful. In fact, we've already been discussing a couple several of these.

Edited by Rick Bennett, 29 September 2011 - 10:21 PM.

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#14 William B

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 10:48 AM

I don't see what the big deal is for me, I read more of my modules on the iPad than I ever would on a laptop (I hate reading from a computer). Infect I had no idea what module I had to a large extent until the iPad app. Personally I would rather we get the features over the ui overhaul that in 2 or 3.0 I couldn't really care but things that help ke study such and learn scripture that excites me and those I want more of. The one thing I would really like is user notes that are general and not attached to verses would help for sermon writing and study :)

#15 Helen Brown

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 09:37 AM

Thank you for the feedback. This thread is now closed.
Helen Brown
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