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#1 D.S.Moses Nickerson

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 12:21 PM

So, I am looking to expand my digitally accessible Greek library. I would love to do so within Accordance, and I really do not want to begin purchasing material outside of Accordance if I don't have to. Is there any plan to digitize Migne's Prologiae Cursus Completus or even just Graeca as a set? I realize that a few elements are trickling out with Athanasius and things like that, and I realize that that is a monumental task... but to be able to search even untagged texts of the first few centuries would be very useful to original lexicography studies and historical studies of early interpretation.

I would also be interested if Accordance had any plans for development with the Perseus project?
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#2 Rick Bennett

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 01:08 PM

So, I am looking to expand my digitally accessible Greek library. I would love to do so within Accordance, and I really do not want to begin purchasing material outside of Accordance if I don't have to. Is there any plan to digitize Migne's Prologiae Cursus Completus or even just Graeca as a set? I realize that a few elements are trickling out with Athanasius and things like that, and I realize that that is a monumental task... but to be able to search even untagged texts of the first few centuries would be very useful to original lexicography studies and historical studies of early interpretation.

I would also be interested if Accordance had any plans for development with the Perseus project?


Basically, Rex has been going through PG and tagging select works. So, our Apologists, Eusebius, Athanasius, are taken from this. As you know, tagging is a laborious task and releasing texts like this has been Rex's preferred method thus far. To my knowledge we haven't discussed releasing any of them as un-tagged texts.

re: Perseus, this is an interesting situation. We knew that the 'hopper' of all their materials was placed in the public domain a few years ago. In fact, I downloaded the Duke Databank of Documentary Papyri (DDbDP) at that time in the hopes of one day discussing how we might integrate it into Accordance…but we've had so many other plans that I never got around to it. But, now that Logos has announced their plans to release this collection for free we are looking into what it might involve.

However, consider this. Shortly after TUFTS placed Perseus in the PD the University of Chicago picked it up and in 2009 launched Perseus under PhiloLogic, with a much improved UI, and more work on tagging, etc. Of course it doesn't boast the advantages of the interconnectivity with Accordance resources, but it is readily and freely available from either location in a pretty easy to use format (esp. PhiloLogic).

Regarding the DDbDP, it is now hosted at http://papyri.info, the Papyrological Navigator (PN). This new project directed by Roger Bagnall of the ISAW at NYU is the most up-to-date and accurate resource for documentary papyri. There is active development on it including new texts, and editing the previous ones. You can view images, English translations, and cross-references to the HGV, and APIS. This is a major advancement, to the point that the DDbDP contained in the Perseus Hopper is almost not worth using. It stops short, for example, at P.Oxy. vol. 61 (1995), whereas the PN has up to the most recent vol. 75 (2011).

Hope this helps to give a little insight…
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#3 D.S.Moses Nickerson

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 08:13 AM

Hope this helps to give a little insight…


Thanks for the thorough, helpful reply. I'll take a look at the more recent PhiloLogos site and see what I can do with just online for a while. The Papyrii site is very cool as well.
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#4 danzac

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 11:04 AM

Rick, I have the Perseus and Duke databank on my copy of Logos. I'd rather have it in Accordance, but thems the breaks!

But let me make an observation. Perseus has all of this material tagged already, no? I'm assuming Logos asked permission for the text and tagging info from Perseus, which is why the whole thing is tagged. And it is nice I must say.

All of that to say — If I'm correct that the tagging info came along with the text, couldn't Accordance ask Perseus for this info too?

Imagine the possibilities with integrating our lexicons with the Perseus library as an Accordance module?!

#5 Rick Bennett

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 11:31 AM

Rick, I have the Perseus and Duke databank on my copy of Logos. I'd rather have it in Accordance, but thems the breaks!

But let me make an observation. Perseus has all of this material tagged already, no? I'm assuming Logos asked permission for the text and tagging info from Perseus, which is why the whole thing is tagged. And it is nice I must say.

All of that to say — If I'm correct that the tagging info came along with the text, couldn't Accordance ask Perseus for this info too?

Imagine the possibilities with integrating our lexicons with the Perseus library as an Accordance module?!


In my use of Perseus over the years, I've seen that most of the material is tagged, yes; though not always accurately (some cases wildly off). Regardless, yes we could ask for the files, but the markup differences are so different that it would still require a significant amount of work to adapt it to our technology, run font conversions, creating corpuses, syncing of translations, etc. etc. It's not impossible and we are looking into it; that's all I can promise at this point.

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#6 Katzenjammer

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 07:06 AM

It seems to me that Accordance has an opportunity here.  

 

Due to many design and development decisions made by Logos, it seems inevitable that it's not ever going to be as fast and powerful and sophisticated as Accordance.  

 

Moreover, Logos seems to be drifting towards becoming a general "e-reader" rather than a research grade platform that focuses on original language texts.

 

If Accordance were to get the Migne and Perseus texts up and running (and tagged, etc.), I should think this would be a massive draw for Accordance; bringing many of the more serious scholars who are still using Logos and looking longingly to Accordance.  

 

No doubt this is a massive task.  However, even showing a public commitment in this direction, would go a long way in helping people make a decision in favor of Accordance.     

 

Quite simply, every time I demo Accordance I am blown away by the beauty and speed and intuitive nature of the software; and I personally would MUCH rather use Accordance and am watching and waiting (and hoping!) that Accordance goes in this direction.  

 

 


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#7 Timothy Jenney

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 12:50 PM

I too have hopes that Accordance will eventually expand our collection of ancient texts. After all, this is an area we have led in for many years.

 

However, we have been recently devoting considerable resources to our native Accordance for Windows and Accordance for iOS projects. Cross-platform compatibility is much more important to the many schools that would like to use our software in their courses—and the students and other kinds of users they represent. I think I can speak for everyone at the company when I say we appreciate the patience our dedicated Greek and Hebrew scholars have shown in the interim. We hope that you will shortly be joined by many of your colleagues that have always been on the other side of the "platform divide:" the PC biblical studies scholars. That, in turn, will give us the resources we need to develop these and other fine texts—especially since the release of our Windows version is on the horizon, which will free up some of the resources we have dedicated to its implementation.

 

As for announcing such things in advance, I think you know we are allergic to to vaporware, or anything that smells like vaporware. We Mac users have all been burnt by it, on time or another. Call us too conservative, if you like, but we like to announce things only once we have a good idea of of when it will be available to our users.

 

Stay tuned, good things are coming...!


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#8 Katzenjammer

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:10 PM

Yes, that makes a lot of sense Timothy.  And I do understand about the vaporware issue...lol; as well as need for flexibility and the managing of resources on your side, especially given the fact that everything takes twice as long as one thinks, etc.  On the other hand, it's hard for a customer to commit without knowing where things are going, etc.  

 

I am a huge believer in assessing the company behind the product/service and getting a sense for them; especially with something that is a fairly large and long-term commitment.  Kicking the tires and all that.  

 

And I must say I am VERY impressed with the software, the general direction of Accordance, and especially the sales people and developers/employees with whom I've interacted.  

 

Cheers,

 

~Katz 



#9 Helen Brown

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 02:56 AM

Porting the Perseus texts (at least many of them) to Accordance is now high on the list of priorities for Accordance, just as soon as we can complete some current major projects.


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#10 Ken Simpson

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 02:59 AM

Brilliant!


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#11 Katzenjammer

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 09:36 AM

Porting the Perseus texts (at least many of them) to Accordance is now high on the list of priorities for Accordance, just as soon as we can complete some current major projects.

 

That's really good to hear Helen.   :)



#12 Jonathan C. Borland

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 04:13 PM

Porting the Perseus texts (at least many of them) to Accordance is now high on the list of priorities for Accordance, just as soon as we can complete some current major projects.


Hi Helen,

I didn't know that. Awesome news!

Sincerely,

Jonathan

#13 Rick Bennett

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 04:35 PM

We also mentioned it here, but no public announcement or anything yet.


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