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Are the diagramming tools included on all Accordance 9 softwar?


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#1 James Whitmore

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 12:59 PM

Hi so I'm a poor seminary student studying Greek and next year I will be studying Hebrew. Are the diagramming tools included in a all accordance packages or do I need a scholar's package? Any comments on the sentence diagramming tools are appreciated as well. What capabilities are there for clause displays?

I'm still in process of deciding to go with Accordance or logos, but am leaning towards Accordance. Also how much is the student discount actually?

thanks

#2 Helen Brown

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 01:15 PM

James:

For text studies you cannot beat Accordance. You do need the tagged texts, at least Scholar's Intro level, but the program itself comes with the diagramming tools whatever package you buy. Our student discount is 10%.
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#3 Dick Roberts

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 03:38 PM

Hi so I'm a poor seminary student studying Greek and next year I will be studying Hebrew. Are the diagramming tools included in a all accordance packages or do I need a scholar's package? Any comments on the sentence diagramming tools are appreciated as well. What capabilities are there for clause displays?

I'm still in process of deciding to go with Accordance or logos, but am leaning towards Accordance. Also how much is the student discount actually?

thanks


James,
I use both Accordance and Logos - You can't beat Accordance for exegetical study in original languages. Both programs have many of the same features; but Accordance runs them faster and with greater simplicity - Just my 2 cents worth.
Dick Roberts

#4 James Tucker

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 04:34 PM

What capabilities are there for clause displays?


Could you elaborate a bit more on this? I can probably give an answer; I am unsure what you mean by "clause displays"?



#5 James Whitmore

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:13 PM

Could you elaborate a bit more on this? I can probably give an answer; I am unsure what you mean by "clause displays"?


Well, its a way to trace the authors reasoning through a paragraph, similar to diagramming a sentence but on a larger scale where the point is to show the exegetical significance of each clause in a passage. It is somewhat similar to arcing. The point is to show how each clause relates to one another. For example. Indentation shows the subordination of the clause to the clause above it. A separate column would include the reference and the label describing the clause.

I'm just wondering if Accordance has any included tools for doing something similar or if I could import a table from Word and then arrange the greek text to visually show the connections.

Clause A might be a command
clause B expresses the purpose or result of A.
clause C in what area/sphere
Clause D coordinates with A

Edited by James Whitmore, 07 October 2011 - 02:35 PM.


#6 James Tucker

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:23 PM

Well, its a way to trace the authors reasoning through a paragraph, similar to diagramming a sentence but on a larger scale where the point is to show the exegetical significance of each clause in a passage. It is somewhat similar to arcing. The point is to show how each clause relates to one another. For example.

Clause A might be a command
clause B expresses the purpose or result of A.

The Diagram Feature in Accordance hosts a full set of Reed & Kellogg diagrammatic sticks (see attached jpeg). The reason I asked for you to elaborate on your phrase is due to the fact that I was unsure of whether you were looking for a tool to create Text-Linguistics Charts (which is entirely different than a diagrammatical analysis). Accordance is apropos for diagrammatical analysis, but it can function to create Text-Linguistic Charts as well.
(ps. For Hebrew, hold down ⌥ while dragging the stick into the block. It will reverse its direction.)



[attachment=1691:Screen Shot 2011-10-07 at 12.17.40 PM.png]
[attachment=1694:Screen Shot 2011-10-07 at 12.41.09 PM.png]


Edited by James Tucker, 07 October 2011 - 02:43 PM.


#7 James Whitmore

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:44 PM

okay thanks. Glad to know I could do both types of work in the same program. Since you seem to be a original languages type of guy. Do you know if Danker's Shorter Lexicon is available for Acc.? I looked but couldn't find it anywhere. The store is still a bit confusing even after browsing for a number of hours. I hope to get BDAG, but would like a good smaller lexicon that is up to date and that would work well for general use until I can save up for the BDAG HALOT bundle.

#8 James Tucker

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:58 PM

okay thanks. Glad to know I could do both types of work in the same program. Since you seem to be a original languages type of guy. Do you know if Danker's Shorter Lexicon is available for Acc.? I looked but couldn't find it anywhere. The store is still a bit confusing even after browsing for a number of hours. I hope to get BDAG, but would like a good smaller lexicon that is up to date and that would work well for general use until I can save up for the BDAG HALOT bundle.




As far as I know, Accordance doesn't offer this text (yet). Accordance has a stellar reputation with its users, and the development team takes into consideration nearly all module requests. Of course, there are various negotiating terms that Accordance/Publishers have to work out. Danker's text would be a welcome addition to the Greek lexicons. Perhaps an Accordance Official would be willing to provide you with more information on whether this is a prospect text for development.

I would certainly encourage you to invest in the BDAG/HALOT. It's a very useful tool to have in Accordance, and the searchable fields make these powerful resources all the more powerful.

Edited by James Tucker, 07 October 2011 - 02:59 PM.


#9 Timothy Jenney

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 03:45 PM

I prefer "clause analysis" to both sentence diagramming and syntactical analysis. It helps me analysis the logic of a paragraph better—and structure an expository sermon correctly. BTW, the technique has also been called both "sentence flow charting" and Bible arcing." I have also heard "discourse analysis" for didactic passages, and the term even applies to "poetic versification."

As someone has already pointed out, Accordance's graphical elements for sentence diagramming can be easily adapted for any of these techniques. Select all the words in a clause, then group them with Cmd-G (ungrouping is Cmd-U). That will enable you to position the entire phrase more easily. Use the lines, arrows, etc. to indicate relationships between clauses, then add your own tags or commentary using the text tool.

[It's really odd you should ask this question now. We were just discussing internally what we could do to make the diagramming feature more convenient for those using these techniques. :) ]
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#10 James Whitmore

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 04:03 PM

I prefer "clause analysis" to both sentence diagramming and syntactical analysis. It helps me analysis the logic of a paragraph better—and structure an expository sermon correctly. BTW, the technique has also been called both "sentence flow charting" and Bible arcing." I have also heard "discourse analysis" for didactic passages, and the term even applies to "poetic versification."

As someone has already pointed out, Accordance's graphical elements for sentence diagramming can be easily adapted for any of these techniques. Select all the words in a clause, then group them with Cmd-G (ungrouping is Cmd-U). That will enable you to position the entire phrase more easily. Use the lines, arrows, etc. to indicate relationships between clauses, then add your own tags or commentary using the text tool.

[It's really odd you should ask this question now. We were just discussing internally what we could do to make the diagramming feature more convenient for those using these techniques. :) ]


Is there a way to easily save diagrams or analysis charts in a way that pops up or is somehow easy to find? Maybe something similar to how you have instant lookup in a lexicon. Is there a window that could be set up to show what other helps pertain to a particular passage? I'm thinking it would nice in the future to see my previous work on passage upon coming back to it without having to remember "Oh, I diagrammed this already now what did I save it as" or just forgetting I had done it altogether.

thanks for all the information. It's definitely inspiring confidence in customer service and a resource for later down the road.

#11 Timothy Jenney

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 09:23 AM

Is there a way to easily save diagrams or analysis charts in a way that pops up or is somehow easy to find? Maybe something similar to how you have instant lookup in a lexicon. Is there a window that could be set up to show what other helps pertain to a particular passage? I'm thinking it would nice in the future to see my previous work on passage upon coming back to it without having to remember "Oh, I diagrammed this already now what did I save it as" or just forgetting I had done it altogether.

thanks for all the information. It's definitely inspiring confidence in customer service and a resource for later down the road.



Hi, James!

Other than our modules for syntax for BHS-W4 and GNT-T, we do not currently have the ability to save diagrams within Accordance. :( That said, it is possible to save them in a variety of other formats. Users can then attach a note to a verse using a User Tool that a diagram is available in "xxx" folder. I'll be the first to admit that this is not ideal—and I have already asked for a better solution.

However, as the "go-to" Bible study software for the world's top biblical scholars, we have a huge backlog of features requested by our users. We do our best to weigh them carefully and respond first to those that are requested most often. Now, I am not suggesting you start a write-in campaign to see this feature moved to the top of our list, I just want you to be aware that we are "pushing the envelope" on a number of fronts. I think you'll be impressed at what we will be releasing in the near future—and that it will encourage you to be patient while you wait for this one.
Blessings,
"Dr. J"

Timothy P. Jenney, Ph. D.
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