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ktizo in Col 1:16


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#1 HansK

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 01:07 AM

The Gr. verb ktizo occurs twice in Col 1:16.
The voice is passive in both cases. I believe that the second occurrence is tagged wrong in GNT-BYZ.
Or do I miss something here? I am no Gr. expert.

Hans

#2 Marco V. Fabbri

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 09:55 AM

I haven't done the tagging myself, but I think that I know what happens.
A few years ago, before the Accordance Forums were made, there was a discussion about Middle and Passive in the old Accordance mailing list, that reflected similar discussions in the [B-Greek] mailing list.

Should forms of the type -μαι, -σαι, -ται be tagged according to morphology, or according to meaning?

According to form, ἔκτισται is Middle, at least if we call Middle the form -μαι, -σαι, -ται. According to meaning, it is passive, as ἐκτίσθη that comes before it.

In GNT-T the decision was taken that, whenever meaning would require a tag and form would require another, both would be provided as alternate tags.

This is what I see in ἔκτισται.
Marco Valerio Fabbri
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#3 Julie Falling

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 07:18 AM

One other thing to note: the aorist has distinct active, middle, and passive forms. The perfect, on the other hand, has just two forms – an active form, and a middle/passive form. It is up to the translator/interpreter to decide if the middle/passive is middle in meaning or passive in meaning. With the tagging, looks like Accordance has opted for calling a Mp (middle/passive) a middle. I, for one, appreciate that they have chosen to parse without interpreting. In Greek class, we were asked to take a stand on the Mp use and parse accordingly, but we were not just tagging, we were translating.

Julia

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