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Catholic User Bible import problem


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#1 LuCouto

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 06:24 AM

Hi,
I'm trying to import a .txt file with a Catholic Bible in French (Bible de Jérusalem) and TOB (Traduction Oecuménique de la Bile) but in both cases I got en error from the verses compatibility. Now, I've noticed that there are possible differences already in Accordance, for example between "The New Jerusalem Bible" and the "King James Version". Specifically, in Gen.32:32 and Gen.32:33 (this verse in only present in the NJB).

Is there a way to keep going with the import process of my .txt file ? How can I import this file without changing the original verses ? Please find attached the file I'm working with.

Thanks in advance.

L.

Attached Files



#2 Ruben Gomez

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 07:29 AM

Hi,

If I am not mistaken, you cannot use non-KJV versification schemes in user Bibles, as you just found out. As a workaround, you could "blend" additional verses with the previous one (i.e., adding Gen 32:33 at the end of Gen 32:32, all in one single line, and enclosing the reference in square brackets or something like that--[Gen 32:33]-- that way you should be able to spot/find the verse fairly easily after you've built the Bible).

Hope this helps.

#3 LuCouto

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 08:52 AM

Hum... and how do I know which verses do I have to blend ? I'd really prefer have the possibility to add these verses as I have in the NJB version. But thanks anyway ! ;)

#4 Ruben Gomez

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 09:29 AM

Hum... and how do I know which verses do I have to blend ? I'd really prefer have the possibility to add these verses as I have in the NJB version. But thanks anyway ! ;)


First thing that comes to mind is that if you google around you should be able to find lists of verses "omitted" from the Textus Receptus, as well as versification differences between various Bible versions. In the Old Testament, of course, discrepancies occur because some versions follow the LXX versification while others follow the Hebrew Masoretic Text. User Bibles must conform, at least for the time being, to KJV's versification (see this thread: http://www.accordanc...findpost&p=6077).

Anyway, that would be a good starting point. It's more work, but it can be done.

Sorry I cannot be of more help.

Edited by Ruben Gomez, 09 November 2011 - 10:13 AM.


#5 Ramiro

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 12:39 PM

Hi,
I'm trying to import a .txt file with a Catholic Bible in French (Bible de Jérusalem) and TOB (Traduction Oecuménique de la Bile) but in both cases I got en error from the verses compatibility. Now, I've noticed that there are possible differences already in Accordance, for example between "The New Jerusalem Bible" and the "King James Version". Specifically, in Gen.32:32 and Gen.32:33 (this verse in only present in the NJB).

Is there a way to keep going with the import process of my .txt file ? How can I import this file without changing the original verses ? Please find attached the file I'm working with.

Thanks in advance.

L.


Hi LuCouto,

I tried extensively to do this before without success. Unfortunately, although Oak Tree promotes the ability to import user Bibles, or Bibles in other languages, unless those Bibles conform to the KJV versification, user Bibles can't be imported into Accordance as user Bibles. For me this was terrible because when I was looking at study bible software, and was looking at Accordance, BibleWorks, and Logos, I was sold on accordance based on the promoted feature of being able to import my user bible. I discussed this at length with Helen and at one point I was informed that the development team would be making an update to unlock the restriction of Accordance to allow the import of any Bible regardless of versification, but alas, that never happened. Some updates were done in which I was notified that the import would now be possible, but it never worked. I really never understood why this is so difficult to do, when other free programs like eSword are able to do this with no issue. Specially since Accordance already has 2 Catholic Bibles in their system, NRSV-CE & the Spanish Navarra Bible, I would think that allowing versification of Catholic Bibles wouldn't be an issue. I was able to match the first 5 versification errors to the NRSV-CE in Accordance to my "Biblia de Jerusalen", which told me they use the same versification. I even asked Accordance support to provide the versification mapping for the NSRV-CE so I could make the changes in one shot to my Spanish Bible, but that was never provided. In the end, for Bible study in Spanish, I have switched to using eSword, which works just fine on a Mac using CrossOver (no need to install windows), and I have a very extensive library of Spanish Bibles, dictionaries, writings of the Fathers, Catechism, councils, and much more...and it's also free. Let m know if you want it, I have a package that I created for a church group I was involved in.

For me, the only reason I keep accordance is for the NRSV-CE study notes.

#6 LuCouto

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 04:56 PM

Thanks for you answer Ramiro! I'll try eSword this weekend and if it's a nice software I'll ask you for your packages! I really don't understand the reason why Accordance Team have put this limitation in User Bible... :huh:

#7 Helen Brown

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 05:57 PM

We want the User Bible to align properly once it is in Accordance. It takes a lot of work to do that, and it's too complicated to make most users do that, so we standardize to the KJV. We'll certainly try to improve this in the future, but it is no simple matter as each Bible is different.
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#8 Ramiro

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 12:30 AM

We want the User Bible to align properly once it is in Accordance. It takes a lot of work to do that, and it's too complicated to make most users do that, so we standardize to the KJV. We'll certainly try to improve this in the future, but it is no simple matter as each Bible is different.


Hi Helen,

A couple of thoughts. 1) Although I have not done an exhaustive search and comparison, I have compared the verses that break the user Bible import in Accordance agains 4 different Catholic Bibles, I have compared them to my 1976 edition of Biblia de Jerusalen, the Nueva Biblia de Jerusalen, the Dios Habla Hoy (which by the way, is available from one of Accordance's modules), La Biblia Latinoamericana, and all the verses match all Bibles. So although I do believe there are differences in many Bibles, in my experience the most widely used Catholic Bibles in Spanish follow the same versification, and that is probably because the most popular Catholic Bibles follow the LXX versification. And 2) If I am not mistaken, Accordance is basically a very sophisticated database, which means that it stores each verse in a table cell. So what other programs like eSword are doing is that they allow cells to be empty, so for example during the import, the 1st chapter that breaks is Ex. 7 because in the KJV there are only 25 verses, but there's 29 in the Biblia de Jerusalen. So in the case of eSword, they simply import the additional 4 verses and it allows the 4 extra cells to be empty for those Bibles that don't have those verses. See the attached screenshot. The is eSword displaying 4 Bibles in parallel, the 1st column on the left is the Biblia Latinoamericana 1995, the next one to the right is the Biblia de Jerusalen 1976, the next one is Nueva Biblia de Jerusalen 1998, and the last one is the Biblia de Nuestro Pueblo (also knows as Biblia del Peregrino). Notice how the 4th one simply leaves the table cells empty, it doesn't force eSword to accept only 1 versification schema as Accordance does. I don't think it would be extremely difficult to simply allow Accordance to import any Bible and as long as the verses were in sequential order, then simply import each into a subsequent table cell.

Questions, when you say that you want the user Bible to align properly, what do you mean, alight properly to what? or in what sense?

Edit: Here's something quite strange. During the import of my Spanish Bible, I get an error that says that the verse after Judg. 20:23 are out of order, so I look in the text file and sure enough, there's Judg. 20:21, then 20:23, then 20:22, so I check the NRSV in Accordance, and guess what, it has the verses in the same order, 21, 23, 22, so I check the KJVS in Accordance and it also has the verses in the 21, 23, 22 order, however, Accordance won't allow a user Bible with that verse sequence. Go figure.

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Edited by Ramiro, 10 November 2011 - 01:39 AM.


#9 julesmim

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 02:24 AM

To the programmers of Accordance Bible.

Hello,
I also would really appreciate to be able to import Bibles that includes "Apocrypha" (but not Apocrypha for Catholics) like Sirach, and more generally with (slightly) different verse sequence.
And I think it might be the case for many Catholics appreciating Accordance, but has to rely on some other software for some versions of Catholic Bible.

Thanks for your attention.
Jules

#10 Ramiro

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 01:59 PM

Helen and Accordance Team,

Just dropping in to see if there has been any progress on this particular feature request. For my part, I have started teaching a course on the Catholic faith in my parish and I would love to be able to use Accordance with my Spanish Bible and other spanish materials for my talk preparations, notes, etc. Hopefully there has, or hopefully there is a plan to make this available soon. Thanx.

Ramiro

#11 LuCouto

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 11:20 AM

It seems that this is really a very difficult thing to do in Accordance! Pitty !


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